Google Updates and SERP Changes - December 2014

[RedBar]

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System: The following 16 messages were cut out of thread at: http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/4712477.htm [webmasterworld.com] by robert_charlton - 5:04 pm on Dec 1, 2014 (PST -8)

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I have several sites from May's Panada which received good boosts and have retained their positions but I also have a few new, unique, widget-specific sites that seem to be floundering and getting no traction whatsoever.

Since there were only two Pandas in 2013 and we've already had two this year, do we assume that it may be another few months before we see another Panda update?

[bsand715]

Agree with RedBar
Something strange is happening in my neck of the woods. I am seeing too many sites that are nothing like Google says it wants, slow load speed some at 25, not mobile friendly, full of flash, old with dates of "current or up coming events as far back as 2002 and it goes on.
Even Scraper Sites. And of course yellow pages, if I wanted a %#*& phone book I'd buy one.
Am I the only one seeing this crap?

[glakes]

I'm seeing some significant flux. With Google's recent announcement that Panda is done until the new year, that leaves penguin or a new animal released from its cage.

[Martin Ice Web]

It would be nice if you could add your country, if you see such dramatic changes. It is very hard to guess this out of your posts

[simonmc]

USA

[Martin Ice Web]

Guys, please check this:

I was wondering about many abonded carts. Many orders that users did not finish. I was wondering why this happend as the number rised over the last year.
I finaly mailed the poeple how left the carts and asked them about the reason.

the main reason was that the cart did not work properly and the couldnīt finish the order. I tested the cart with many Browsers and it was ok.
I asked again and we figured out that this poeple found our site through Google Pictures search.

And as Google does not want poeple to leave their site they show it in an iframe. Google analytics does not Report this as iframe visits!

I will try to redirect the site with php while looking in $_SERVER vars what script is running.


=> Google, this is not a good user experience! Shame on you!

[samwest]

@MIW - awesome detective work! I am seeing the exact same thing lately. I suspected something like this, and I'm not surprised who is doing it. Don't be evil....HA!

I am seeing too many sites that are nothing like Google says it wants, slow load speed some at 25, not mobile friendly, full of flash, old with dates of "current or up coming events as far back as 2002 and it goes on.

Also see this same thing...most google results are so ad loaded that they crash the browser on an i7 machine. Old too: I was searching for a recent article topic and the newest it could produce was 2005.

[rish3]

I asked again and we figured out that this poeple found our site through Google Pictures search.

And as Google does not want poeple to leave their site they show it in an iframe. Google analytics does not Report this as iframe visits!

Can you give a step-by-step example where this happens? If I search for something with Google's image search, I see all the image results. Then, if I click on a single image, it zooms in. At that point, if I either click on the image, or the "visit page" button, it goes to the source website...without an iframe.

What is it you are doing that ends up with the source site in an iframe?

[bsand715]

USA

[samwest]

Just a funny observation I figured I'd share...
Last year on this day there were four very consecutive sales conversions that came in at 11:21am, 11:23am, 11:30am and 11:34am. At the time I thought this was very odd...especially since nothing was done with the site and there had been no action for over 12 hour prior.

We'll, just a few minutes ago that odd event from 365 days ago to the day repeated itself with a sale at 12:39am, 12:47am, 12:53am and 12:58am.

Prior, there was no action whatsoever since yesterday morning (over 24 hours). I expect to see very little if anything the rest of the day.

Call it coincidence or call it a pattern in the chaos that reveals the highly controlled nature of the serps. Anyone have a logical explanation for this kind of goofy occurrence?

[Leosghost]

@Martin Ice Web..
I just checked various carts ( mine and others ) via searching for products via G images..using FF28 on linux..
I get the same results as rish3..in each case I get sent from G images directly to their image page, then if I click "visit site" ( or if I click on the image ), I get sent directly to the site and onwards to the cart..with no iframes in the way or surrounding it..
I'm running noscript..G image search works fine running it..when I allow all scripts ..I still get the same result as rish3..no problems with iframes.all carts are working..

Are you certain that your customers are not arriving to you via Google cache ? ( G cache does indeed use iframes )..or are your customers running, toolbars, or unusual configurations..?

[TheMadScientist]

I will try to redirect the site with php while looking in $_SERVER vars what script is running.

PHP likely won't fix it -- It sounds more like You need a JavaScript frame-buster on your cart page(s) to break out of the iFrame when people click to order.

<script> if(top != self) top.location.replace(location); </script>

[EditorialGuy]

Call it coincidence or call it a pattern in the chaos that reveals the highly controlled nature of the serps. Anyone have a logical explanation for this kind of goofy occurrence?

When my son was in high school, he worked part-time in a small luxury-goods store. The owner could predict what sales would be on any given day with remarkable accuracy, based on his experience from previous years. And he was making his estimates without the the kind of statistical modeling or forecasting software that's available today.

[WebEnthusiast]

@Martin Ice Web
@Leosghost
@rish3

I have same results as Martin Ice Web when I open a picture in G images. I have iframe for all the time I am on site.

Browser: Chrome,
Location: Germany

[Martin Ice Web]

@Leosghost, TMS, thanx for checking. Where are you located?

then if I click "visit site"

yes, in Germany it say in the upper right Corner "Webseite mit diesem Bild". But you have to click on it to remove the iframe. But the page itself works in the iframe and i doubt that many users realy know that they are not Surfing on the "real" site unless they click on this link.

<script> if(top != self) top.location.replace(location); </script>

yes, thanx this will work. But will the SID be valid on the redirect?
I was on the way to relocated the cart system with php, while pushing the SID with a paramter.

@WebE, is it a german thing? I try many Browsers, even Safari on Windows system, and all open an iframe.

It is annoying for me, as many poeple come from Picture search to us, because they just donīt know the right Name for the item. We put much effort in Pictures and before this we had a big Piece of conversions through pic search. And if i had not been diggin into it, i might have thought it is my site and that the user donīt like it.

What i mean is, not in every case it is the site that does not fit the user, but Google did many things making it easy for the user to leave the Google system.


ecom, germany

[TheMadScientist]

But will the SID be valid on the redirect?

Check to see -- If the SID is not valid, start a new thread and let me know where it is or post here again and let's find a solution that will work for real people like you; meaning: let's ignore/fix what Google does and what those who troll around "correcting people" as if Google is always right say, so we can find a work-around and fix/cure for this type of situation real people who run sites can implement.

I'd be happy to help make sites run by people who read/visit here work the way they should, even if that goes against what Google does or makes me a "conspiracy theorist" in the mind(s) of some/anyone.

[edited by: TheMadScientist at 9:59 am (utc) on Dec 19, 2014]

[Wilburforce]

is it a german thing?

@MIW

I have tried this (UK), and go to the site, not to a frame.

So far we have posters from USA, UK and Germany, of which only German sites/browsers exhibit this effect.

It would be interesting to know whether it is exclusive to Germany, or whether what you see can be found in other (scattered? EU?) countries/locations.

Can anyone from somewhere else contribute here?

[Some_Bloke]

It's working ok for me here in the UK as well.

I just tried searching via google.fr (from UK)

The presentation is different (image is shown superimposed over actual web page it belongs to) but still not in iframe.

[edited by: Some_Bloke at 10:45 am (utc) on Dec 19, 2014]

[WebEnthusiast]

@Martin Ice Web
On google.com you won't have iframe but on google.de you will have it. For same url just diff domain.

[glakes]

So this is isolated to google.de (for now)? I don't recall Google handling images this way in the past. Is it new? If so, it might be more testing that could roll out elsewhere in the near future. Looks like I will need to dust off the frame trap breaker script. I've used it on specific sites that were being partially scraped (they stole my navigation menu and used that on their domain and loaded my pages in a frame). Looks like Google is stooping to the same level or is tinkering around with google.de to offset all the monopoly turmoil they are facing in Europe.

[edited by: aakk9999 at 3:15 pm (utc) on Dec 19, 2014]

[Leosghost]

@martin
yes!you are correct..this is the image search behavior on google .de

I am in France and we get a completely different layout and functionality on image search from you..
( haven't made any image searches whilst in Germany for a while )

But if I specifically enter google.de ( allow javascript to google.de )into the address bar and choose "bilder" ( images )..I can see what you do..without using proxies..may well work like that for others here..

If so ..enter the German word for something likely be sold on a site..get to the thumbnail page..and hover over each thumb until you find one that appears to be going to a small site -( not ebay or amazon etc ) ..click on that thumbnail..you'll get what Martin ( and anyone selse searching on google.de gets ) a frameset with what looks to the non webmaster ( folks who have no idea that they are seeing a site framed and not actually on the site ) like you are at the site which has the image ..

German images search resembles the layout that I was getting around 1 year ago..and Which was being used at that time in the USA and the UK..
Image search ( with javascript "authorised", which is what 99% of surfers do ) brings up a scrolling page of image thumbnails..

Click on image gets you to a page using frames..your page ( page of site with image in place ) is on the left..in iframe..right-side frame has image again ( smaller ) left side page has full functionality , can enter items into carts etc..but they will not complete..

"forbid" javascript to Google.de..and click on image from scrolling serps takes you to an interstitial G page with a text link to the actual URL of the page with the image..click this and you get to the real page with no frame..

TMS's frame buster is going to have to be added to all your pages..( I use framebusters since over 10 years ago when G began pulling images for their cached pages live from sites, site owners piad the badwidth, the customer never need to actually go the the site, I run a lot of image heavy sites )..German webmasters are going to have to get the attention of someone who can make / force G to stop this, must be really screwing up ecom in Germany and costing you all a fortune in lost sales..

TMS..recycling nics ?

BTW..@some_bloke..what you see on image search on google.fr, is not the same as what we in France see on image search on google.fr..we get no "superimposition" ..we get the image on the grey background..with visit page or see image..click through to visit page gets you directly to the page, no superimposition or other G tricks..

[Martin Ice Web]

@Leosghost, thanx for confirming my observations.

Google changed it a few month ago or was testing it for a while and has now completely changed to it. My abonded carts and ucompleted checkouts went up over the last month.

And i realy doupt that normal users know that this is an iframe.


My site gains fully functional up to the checkout point. Heck, the poeple must think, what a lousy ecom.

I will try TMSīs Frame buster. Do you have any know how about Google Response to this JS code?

Why is Google doing this? Indeed there is no Information for the user that he is NOT on the page itself. I use a 24 Inch Screen ( and i think many poeple do have WXGA Screens ). The large Screen makes the small right frame from Google nearly unvisible for the users eye/attention.

[Martin Ice Web]

So this is isolated to google.de (for now)?

Anyone seeing this pic search behaviour in australia/india .. ?

[Leosghost]

I have never seen any problems with it ( this JS framebuster ) in relation to G, use of it doesn't drop you lower in the serps etc if that is what you mean..

re the question of G doing this in other countries, I'll have look ( and phone around to ask contacts in other countries ) in later today in some other countries image serps..I know the words in a lot of languages for the items that we sell, so entering them in their version of G image search should get me to ecom sites ( framed or not )..I'll get back as I get results..if others could do similar that would enlighten all of us ..and help the victims of this..

Now for coffee..I made the above post not long after waking ( and still have not had my coffee )at 13.00 today..seemed urgent to let you know :)

Why is Google doing this?

1..because they can
2..because they don't care about how what they do affects webmasters
3..sneaky retaliation for "problems" that they are getting in Germany ( and maybe other countries ) ..

pick any one of the above..What is for sure is that it cannot be because they do not know..G know more about code ( especially javascript ) than anyone..ever looked at the source code on any of their pages, especially search pages..

[Martin Ice Web]

Now for coffee..I made the above post not long after waking ( and still have not had my coffee )at 13.00 today..seemed urgent to let you know :)

this is pure committment! Thanx. Now please, hurry up and get yourself a coffee!

use of it doesn't drop you lower in the serps

Yes, this was what i was about to ask for.

[toidi]

Call it coincidence or call it a pattern in the chaos that reveals the highly controlled nature of the serps. Anyone have a logical explanation for this kind of goofy occurrence? 

IMVHO, google is supplying just enough traffic to sites to keep them afloat. Without the throttling, too many sites would shut down revealing the problems google is dealing with. Problems affect stock value. Stock value has become the #1 priority.

[trabis]

From Portugal, when searching in .de I get an iframe of the site on the left and a image preview on the right. If I want to see where the image is I have to search in the iframe.

From Portugal, when searching in .fr I also get an iframe of the site on the left but no image preview on the right(just the details). Instead, the image is in a popup and does not let me navigate the iframe. When I close the popup I get redirected to the site.

[Leosghost]

From Portugal, when searching in .de I get an iframe of the site on the left and a image preview on the right. If I want to see where the image is I have to search in the iframe.

From Portugal, when searching in .fr I also get an iframe of the site on the left but no image preview on the right(just the details). Instead, the image is in a popup and does not let me navigate the iframe. When I close the popup I get redirected to the site.

Is that with or without allowing javascript on google.de and google.fr ? I'm presuming ( yes yes I know ;) that it is "with"..

[trabis]

Is that with or without allowing javascript on google.de and google.fr ?

I'm using chrome with javascript enabled.

With javascript disabled the image search is equal on every tld. Clicking on an image result will lead you directly to the site.

[Leosghost]

OK ..with javascript allowed and searching from France , but accessing the following Google domains and searching images..
Google.pk ( Pakistan )
Google.co.in ( India )
Google.pl ( Poland )
Google.it (Italy)
Google.co.uk ( United Kingdom )

I could have checked more,( was bit busy, so only checked 5 'til now ) still waiting for some people to get back to me, or for them to be awake and near their phones or in their offices..

In each case I put the Google.TLD into the address bar and hit enter..then select image search..and input a keyword that I know will get me images from sites selling the item..

I get the image thumbnails, then click on an image, I reach a page with the image at page size on dark grey background, two buttons ..visit page..view image..In all the above cases, on each of the above Google country domains image search, clicking on "visit page" takes me direct to the page..with no frames..clicking on view image, gives me the image at a larger size, clicking again on the image, gives me the full size image.. This happens on all sites..
If I disallow javascript, and go to the same Google image search in each country, I get a different search grid ( thumbnails on white background but without the "infinite scrolling" that happens with javascript ) a click on any image takes me directly to the site that the image comes from..with no frames..

So..G is only doing the "Frames trick" that breaks carts on sites that do not use "framebusters" to certain TLDs, and it depends on where one is viewing from as to if they do it or not, also the image search layout and "experience" that one gets inside a country, is not necessarily the same as the image search one gets from outside that country , even if from outside one puts the target country Google domain directly into the address bar..

( I did mention the way Google vary what they show and how they show it depending on where one is, and depending on one's search history etc etc , personalisation , in another thread here )

Google must know that they are affecting some carts when they do this "frames trick", as they also know that 99.99% of surfers allow javascript..

For now it appears that if you have a shopping cart..where ever you are..you must use "frame busters" , even if the "image search experience on Google.whatever TLD looks OK to you with javascript allowed ( your visitors arriving via G image search may , or may not have the "experience" you see..and especially so if you have customers from outside your own country, if you do not use the "frame buster"..you will lose sales..

Interference with trade and or restraint of trade anyone..

Google image search can affect your visitors just like some old school malware or highjacking toolbars do..

If only there was a way to get visitors to your site without this happening..wait..a solution...adwords ;)

Or..a framebuster script..like the one kindly supplied above by TheMadScientist :)

[MichaelP]

2..because they don't care about how what they do affects webmasters
3..sneaky retaliation for "problems" that they are getting in Germany ( and maybe other countries )

I don't think so, I think it's the opposite. I actually like it, this gives much more exposure to webmasters. You site immediately loads, visitors can see your products, your ads display etc. I think that having to click twice to get to a site makes (first click in image, then click on visit site) makes a lot of people not visit your site and google just ends up with a lot of useless bandwidth usage. I would be definitely happy if google.com adopted this.