Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
How would you know "IF" you got a manual one or an automatic one?
scooterdude wrote:
Re inclusion requests apparently only clear manual penalties
The point of this thread is that the penalties appear to be automated and probably algorithmic
Dear site owner or webmaster of http://www.example.com/,
We received a request from a site owner to reconsider http://www.example.com/ for compliance with Google's Webmaster Guidelines. We reviewed your site and found no manual actions by the webspam team that might affect your site's ranking in Google. There's no need to file a reconsideration request for your site, because any ranking issues you may be experiencing are not related to a manual action taken by the webspam team. Of course, there may be other issues with your site that affect your site's ranking. Google's computers determine the order of our search results using a series of formulas known as algorithms. We make hundreds of changes to our search algorithms each year, and we employ more than 200 different signals when ranking pages. As our algorithms change and as the web (including your site) changes, some fluctuation in ranking can happen as we make updates to present the best results to our users. If you've experienced a change in ranking which you suspect may be more than a simple algorithm change, there are other things you may want to investigate as possible causes, such as a major change to your site's content, content management system, or server architecture. For example, a site may not rank well if your server stops serving pages to Googlebot, or if you've changed the URLs for a large portion of your site's pages. This article has a list of other potential reasons your site may not be doing well in search. If you're still unable to resolve your issue, please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support.
Sincerely, Google Search Quality Team
[edited by: fathom at 4:15 pm (utc) on Apr 4, 2012]
2. Is it possible for competitors to hurt you site via links?
This is the interesting question, and one that affects all website owners. It strikes me that this should be the main discussion here.
It makes no sense to discount #2 by using the specifics of #1 - we don't know the specifics of #1. It's also a very narrow discussion that only really affects one website - even if it may serve as one example.
Perhaps if we were to leave the specifics of the OP's situation, there could be a more fruitful discussion about whether hurting a competitor is a real possibility, and how concerned site owners should be (or not be) about this.
As we’ve mentioned previously, we’ve heard complaints from users that if they click on a result and it’s difficult to find the actual content, they aren’t happy with the experience. Rather than scrolling down the page past a slew of ads, users want to see content right away. So sites that don’t have much content “above-the-fold” can be affected by this change. If you click on a website and the part of the website you see first either doesn’t have a lot of visible content above-the-fold or dedicates a large fraction of the site’s initial screen real estate to ads, that’s not a very good user experience. Such sites may not rank as highly going forward.
Shaddows wrote:fathom wrote:
"That said... closing this thread (or splitting) makes more sense than simply hijacking it"
The thing is, almost every other contributor on this thread has kind of discounted the OP, and moved on the the larger question, wheras you have tightly focused on the OP. This would make splitting the thread difficult, as its almost as if two sides were having parallel conversations. One thread would be a monologue of "Paid links can harm" while the other would be "The OP has not demonstrated paid links are what his problem actually is"
Because your posting may be more pertinent to another on going discussion, or it might spawn its own thread, it may be moved as WebmasterWorld sees fit.
First of all, the paid links were on a entirely different domain, tithe website you're speculating about.
The drop in traffic from the domain you're talking about, coincides with the above the fold update, but it's not what this thread was discussing.
Unfortunately, in recent months, post Panda, more and more webmasters have received messages from Google, alerting them of unnatural linking practices, followed by drops in SERPS and traffic.
Google have made a complete u-turn and now rather than discrediting links it deems unnatural, it instead penalises the websites receiving them.
Since Panda, all of the talk and focus has been on on-site factors, such as ad placement, thin content etc and most websites have failed to bounce back. I'm wondering whether that's because, it's got nothing to do with their website, but their link profile?
Furthermore, implying that my visitors don't find wha they're looking for, most certainly isn't true.
The website you're talking about has a Bounce rate of less than 30%, 10+ page views average and over 10 minutes average time on website.
Don't make assumptions, that because my website doesn't have tons of text, that the content isn't useful to those seeking it.
All in all, you're mixing two entirely different websites up and almost everything you've said, doesn't relate.
Matt Cutts confirmed that it is possible that competitors could hurt your ranking. Google changed webmaster guideline something like from "impossible to hurt you" to "Google tries very hard to make sure that one competitor can't hurt another competitor"
Few months ago, we've setup a test with pageonresults due to our redirectA redirect is a server side response... this means from a user-agent vantagepoint (like Googlebot) the original destination no longer exists.
Dear site owner or webmaster of
We received a request from a site owner to reconsider for compliance with Google's Webmaster Guidelines.
We've reviewed your site and we still see links to your site that violate our quality guidelines.
Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include buying links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes.
We encourage you to make changes to comply with our quality guidelines. Once you've made these changes, please submit your site for reconsideration in Google's search results.
If you find unnatural links to your site that you are unable to control or remove, please provide the details in your reconsideration request.
If you have additional questions about how to resolve this issue, please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support.
Sincerely,
Google Search Quality Team
totally absurd.
I filed a reinclusion request for an 11 year old content site that I've never built any links to. Top quality content, timeless, some of the best in its area etc. etc. Google sent me a notice that there were links to my site that they detected that were unnatural.
fathom wrote:
[...] maybe your own internal developments are the unnatural part you suggest isn't your job.
We've reviewed your site and we still see links to your site that violate our quality guidelines.
Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include buying links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes.
We encourage you to make changes to comply with our quality guidelines.
rlange wrote:
which is something website owners have little to no control over.
rlange wrote:
Google has apparently assumed that he's the one responsible for these violations when it could very easily be someone else.
Edit: Wait. I think what you're suggesting is that possible links from his other site are the links that Google is considering suspicious. If so, that would be interesting.
--
Ryan
Top quality content, timeless, some of the best in its area etc. etc
I did the same experiment a couple of weeks ago, albeit on a smaller scale. It appears that links can harm you.
Case 1: I had a website which was bouncing between #5 and #8. Purchased 20 links from the same service to see if I could "settle" it. It was settled alright, at #8. After a couple of months I let the purchased links expire - my website shot to #2 within 2-3 days.
Case 2: Using the same service I purchased 10 links to a website ranking on the second page for its main keyword. The website has not been touched in at least 2 years. After I purchased the 10 links that website instantly dropped from page #2 to page #6, within 2-3 days. I'll be letting those links expire to see if there would be a positive move.
Bad links can certainly harm you now and I have no idea what Google was thinking...
your competitor doesn't mind spending a few bucks you could be taken down very easily.
Point those links at google.co.uk to see if you can get it to drop
Dear site owner or webmaster of www.mysite.co.uk,
We received a request from a site owner to reconsider www.mysite.co.uk/ for compliance with Google's Webmaster Guidelines.
We've reviewed your site and we still see links to your site that violate our quality guidelines.
Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include buying links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes.
We encourage you to make changes to comply with our quality guidelines. Once you've made these changes, please submit your site for reconsideration in Google's search results.
If you find unnatural links to your site that you are unable to control or remove, please provide the details in your reconsideration request.
If you have additional questions about how to resolve this issue, please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support.
Sincerely,
Google Search Quality Team
We've reviewed your site and we still see links to your site that violate our quality guidelines
Just wanted to follow up on my experiments. As expected with "Case 2", after I let the purchased links expire, the website regained its page #2 ranking within days of the removal of those links...
I think the community should really pay more attention to this, since it's clear as day that as long as your competitor doesn't mind spending a few bucks (the cheaper the links the faster they'd be "flagged") - you could be taken down very easily.
Could it be possible that a competitor is making false traffic appear as www.cj.com in order to hurt my google standing?
Fact
Dear site owner or webmaster of www.mysite.co.uk,
We received a request from a site owner to reconsider www.mysite.co.uk/ for compliance with Google's Webmaster Guidelines.
We've reviewed your site and we still see links to your site that violate our quality guidelines.
Specifically, look for possibly artificial or unnatural links pointing to your site that could be intended to manipulate PageRank. Examples of unnatural linking could include buying links to pass PageRank or participating in link schemes.
We encourage you to make changes to comply with our quality guidelines. Once you've made these changes, please submit your site for reconsideration in Google's search results.
If you find unnatural links to your site that you are unable to control or remove, please provide the details in your reconsideration request.
If you have additional questions about how to resolve this issue, please see our Webmaster Help Forum for support.
Sincerely,
Google Search Quality Team
The fact is that my stats show huge numbers of referral traffic from www.cj.com even though I am not a member of cj.com or do I pay for any traffic or adverts. Ever.