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How should I group keywords for landing pages?

         

EasyDev

1:13 pm on Jan 21, 2012 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



How should I group keywords for landing pages?

It’s pretty easy when we are really talking about different categories:
widgets_blue, widgets_green, widgets_red…
In that case each category really supply an added value to the customers!

It really became more difficult when we are working on Synonyms:
Widgets_blue_synonym1, Widgets_blue_synonym2, Widgets_blue_synonym3…

Unfortunately on very competitive markets,
all the best ranking competitors are using, each one on his own personal way,
a lot of exact keyword stuffed landing pages.


SCENARIOS:

WEBSITE 1
Home
Home -> Widgets_blue
Home -> Widgets_blue -> Widgets_blue_synonym1
Home -> Widgets_blue -> Widgets_blue_synonym2…
Home -> Widgets_green
Home -> Widgets_green -> Widgets_green_synonym1
Home -> Widgets_green -> Widgets_green_synonym2…

WEBSITE 2
Home
Home -> Widgets_blue
Home -> Widgets_green

Let's suppose that both the websites own 100 incoming links
subdivided on the various pages using anchor texts with all the various synonyms.


On website 1 a good ranking will be due to onpage and offpage factors,
while on website 2 a good ranking will be due mainly to offpage factors...

I'm building the tree of new website and this dilemma is driving me crazy!

Should I think that the best solution is the website1, even if on the spammy side...
Or should I think that everything is up to the anchor texts linking to the pages,
and in that case even a page widgets with a lot of links for all the synonyms will do the work?

Thanks.

goodroi

4:24 pm on Jan 22, 2012 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



My first priority is to find enough unique content for each keyword that I want to rank for. This often requires a high amount of creativity. High quality unique content allows me to avoid issues with duplicate content and more importantly it also increases the value of my pages making it easier to attract backlinks to them and better content naturally gains excellent usage signals.

You seem to be talking in a two dimensional world (content vs. links). Google is not a simple two dimensional world. They are multi-dimensional and constantly changing. Google looks at external links, internal links, on page content and even off page content (think about relevant external links), not to mention usage signals and a bunch of other factors.

Planet13

4:31 pm on Jan 22, 2012 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Agree with goodroi on this one.

EasyDev

3:55 am on Jan 23, 2012 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I understand what you are saying, by the way, I do not have asked if it is easier to rank with good content or with links?!?

FACT: people search the same thing using hundreds of keywords,
just think that on my AdWords campaign, the conversion rate of those 10 keywords is pretty the SAME!

So, on Adwords, Google considers all this keywords highly RELEVANT,
putting my ads on the top positions and giving hi quality rates … but what happen when we move to SEO!?!?

I OBVIOUSLY would like to get traffic from the same keywords even from organic
… So in order to be relevant for each keyword I need to create GREAT CONTENT
… Great content and Landing pages for each keyword
… At the end I will have 10 pages with great content and about the SAME IDENTICAL CONCEPT
… Useful?

By the way If I am considered relevant for those keywords on AdWords,
should I consider my self spammy if I build 10 pages for those same synonyms?
So that’s the sense of my question!

Can I build a website on NOKIA not ever mentioning the word “mobile phones”
and get a first position for it
, probably yes? If a lot of ppl will link my site with that anchor!

Would be easier to rank for the keyword “mobile phones” if I mention even the word on one or more pages of the website NOKIA? Yes, sounds really logic!

And if I want to get traffic also for the keyword “cellular” , should I expect to rank up ONLY tanks to those ppl who will eventually link to my site with the keyword “cellular”or should I write an apposite section/page on my nokia website optimized for that term?
Content is king, but where is the limit… 2 pages one for mobile phones and the second for “cellular” .. or 10 pages… or one hundred, of original content on the exact same topic!

That’s why I’m asking… a 1 page website with the brand Nokia not mentioning nor the keyword “mobile phones” nor “cellular” can probably rank good for both only thanks to the anchor on the links it receives (theme of the source website… and other factors), what is your thought?

tedster

5:19 am on Jan 23, 2012 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



should I consider my self spammy if I build 10 pages for those same synonyms?

Probably. I'm seeing that tactic get sites in trouble quite often this past year. As goodroi said, your way of looking at this is very two dimensional. If you think of a website as just a collection of keywords with backlinks, then you're not really building an online business, you're building web spam.

Build an online business - then your question evaporates.

EasyDev

2:06 pm on Jan 23, 2012 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



There are many other threads on this website talking about small concepts, and the way google may use them to rank results... all are questions from ppl who do not see is own 20 hours works like an online business? So you can simply close 50% of the threads and answer to the world with this sentence: "stop barking! and asking stupid questions about ...bla.. bla... and build an online business!" Thank you anyway. Nothing personal!

tedster

5:02 pm on Jan 23, 2012 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Well, the obvious answer is to do what you are thinking of doing and see what happens. That's the way most SEO was developed from the very early days of search engines, when we had no information at all - just a "black box".

My guess is that results will depend very much on the quality of each page's content and how much they overlap. At the extreme, your site could end up looking like an eHow style "content farm" and we know that Google's Panda algorithm targets those.

Planet13

5:25 pm on Jan 23, 2012 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Hi there, EasyDev:

I don't think your questions are stupid, and I am quite sure that goodroi and tedster don't think they are stupid, either. Plus I think they, as well as I, very much welcome questions of the type you are asking. If they didn't, I don't think they would have bothered to answer them at all. Neither of them seems like the type of person who enjoys belittling the opinion of others.

My opinion - which is very much based on the thoughts espressed in this forum by tedster, goodroi, Robert Charlton, and other moderators, as well as based on my own experience - is that trying to target every synonym is a GOOD idea for Adwords, but can be very dangerous for SEO.

And, it seems more apparent now than ever that what advice google's Adsense team might give can contradict the advice that google's spam team gives, and vice versa.

While no one knows for sure, there are a lot of people who have expressed the idea that Panda was designed to devalue sites that had many pages that were covering very closely related synonyms.

In fact, for those who claim to have recovered from Panda, many claim their recovery was due to REDUCING the number of similar pages (others claim to have escaped Panda by moving their content to a new sub-domain or a new domain altogether).

It is probably a good idea to look at those sites that were nailed by the various versions of Panda (mahalo, ehow, etc.,) and try and see whether or not the structure of your new site will closely resemble the structure of sites that were struck by Panda.

As for tedster's comment, with which you seem to have some concern:

Build an online business - then your question evaporates.


I am going to go out on a limb here with comments tedster has posted in the past, as well as with my own experience and observations of the search results lately, to try and interpret what he is saying:

It is much harder nowadays to gain good rankings by simply creating significant amounts of similar content that uses traditional on-page SEO methods of targeting keywords.

Conversely, websites that create a unique value for visitors, which thus leads to higher amounts of social interaction, appear to benefit significantly from that social interaction.

(I apologize tedster if I have misinterpreted your statement.)

Some of that social interaction could be:

    - people posting links to the site
    - people face book "liking" the site
    - people tweeting the site's URL / name
    - people typing the URL into the google search box
    - large media organizations mentioning the site
    - well respected authority sites referencing the site)


Some people theorize that google even tracks the email opening rate of sites that send out newsletters and uses that as part of their search ranking algorithm.

One final note, EasyDev:

To a certain extent, we are all just guessing here - although some people's guesses are worth more than others. The only way you will know for certain is by experimenting. If you are going to build a web site which is not expected to have a lot of the social interaction that I mentioned above, then it may be you will need to build several sites, with different structures, and see which one works best.

tedster

5:40 pm on Jan 23, 2012 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



No, you didn't misrepresent my ideas at all, Planet13. Thank you for taking the time and effort to write up such a cogent summary.

[edited by: tedster at 6:36 pm (utc) on Jan 23, 2012]

Planet13

5:49 pm on Jan 23, 2012 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Thank you for taking the time and effort to right up such a cogent summary.


Yes, well now that I have gotten my ONE "Act Of Random Kindness" over and done with for the year, I can go back to being the cantankerous old poster that I usually am until 2013 ;)