Minor Panda update Oct 13 - per Matt Cutts

[sid786]

Matt Cutts responds on Twitter that they have applied a minor algorithmic update last late night.

Link: http://twitter.com/#!/mattcutts/status/124905069748559872 [twitter.com]

Have your websites been affected with this update? My site's traffic is stable, but I was expecting a positive bump.

[Mod's note: Fixed link so it would display, as the WebmasterWorld link redirect script will break it in most browsers. Copy and paste url into your browser if hyperlink doesn't go to Matt's tweet.]

[edited by: Robert_Charlton at 9:54 pm (utc) on Oct 14, 2011]
[edit reason] fixed link display [/edit]

[Bill_H]

We had positive results (on a mature site with decent PR) from the first panda update - traffic was up 20% and some positive change in the serps, but on the 13th we suddenly lost 40% of our traffic and it is still dropping. We don't see much change for our keywords in the serps, though, which is kinda puzzling for the drop in traffic.

I sure hope this stabilizes soon so we can kinda figure out what direction Google is going now...

Cheers,
Bill

[koan]

My first site that was hit in the original Panda update in February has recovered a lot in this "minor" update. It's nice but I'm not getting my hopes up, I couldn't take a 2nd heart break. For now, it's nice while it lasts. Still have many other sites in pandaland (struck by following updates) but this one was the first panda victim and my main earner, so it makes a difference money wise.

[tedster]

We don't see much change for our keywords in the serps, though, which is kinda puzzling for the drop in traffic.

If you manage to sort that apparent contradiction, I'd love to hear what you learn. There are a number of possibilities, one of which is that rankings for your main keywords are not stable - not appearing as consistently as they used to (yo-yo rankings, in other words.)

But there's another possibility that several others have reported about this "minor" update for them - that main keywords are unaffected but many long tail terms just vanished. If that is a real Panda effect this time, and not some other algorithm change, then it's the first time we've heard about this being a Panda effect.

[whatson]

I cant believe it! My un-affected Panda sites are finally hit too. That's it for me. I am wiped out, my whole life's career come to an end.
Time to put the black hat on so I can make my mortgage payments. Just don't care any more. SPAM TIME.

[jinnguyen]

Panda is such a cute and innocent, this evil aglo should not ever and ever using its name. Also, the ridiculous version update outloud in the public, who care? Keep your evil algo version internally please.

[outland88]

We don't see much change for our keywords in the serps, though, which is kinda puzzling for the drop in traffic.

That one caught my eye to because there seems to be a lot of traffic throttling going on this month. Google can literally make or break you in a short time frame. I can only assume because there’s little talk about keyword positions this must be targeting 500+ page Adsense sites that have made few changes through the years.

[alvin123]

Hoping I wouldn't be affected by Panda but lost 50 percent of google traffic Oct 14. Seems I have lost many "long tail" searches, main keywords seem stable.

[indyank]

Traffic throttling is up big time since Feb. It isn't easy to determine the SERP ranking anymore as location, time, search suggestions and several other factors influence the rank and traffic.

The effect on long tail is not something new for me.I have already seen it. It might be that they are now running it for many other keywords.

[arubicus]

whatson

May as well go Black Hat. Sooner or later whether you intentionally did something or not, you will take a hit.

What is troubling is that when you do get hit it is a very slim chance will you make it back. Especially when you don't know what you are being hit for. So if you care about your site, niche, business...you will eventually get hurt bad.

At least with black hat, you know what you are doing is wrong and you don't care if you take the hit as you simply go on to the next project/technique. You don't fall in love with your site and you don't get hurt.

I despise Black Hat but after 12+ years doing business on the internet...sure looks like a hell of a better deal.

Heck even scraping other people's content is outranking the original. Good deal there. I guess you don't even have to write content yourself. Just take someones article and rewrite it slightly with a spinner and bang...outrank the original. I tell you Google serps are a freaking mess.

[Reno]

there seems to be a lot of traffic throttling going on this month
....
Traffic throttling is up big time since Feb

In the months pre-Panda, there was much discussion here about throttling. I and others believed it was real because our traffic was SO consistently +/-5% ~ it seemed to be a kind of statistical anomaly for there to be so little deviation day after day.

So now I'm wondering ~ was that throttling a precursor to the onslaught of Panda? Was Google laying the groundwork and gathering data, and were the sites being "throttled" during that time period hit harder than others?

Regarding my own sites: I was throttled and I was Pandalized.

What is troubling is that when you do get hit it is a very slim chance will you make it back. Especially when you don't know what you are being hit for.

The second part of that quote is my number 1 complaint about Google ~ it's like being arrested and never being told the charges. It's not right when the cops do it; it's not right when Google does it, and these days, they are doing it all the time, and apparently feel zero responsibility for the lives they are ruining.

..............................

[mrguy]

feel zero responsibility for the lives they are ruining.

With the economy the way it is, that speaks volumes. When Google does these updates, they don't care about anybody else but Google and the engineers' own egos that worked on the latest release.

I know you're not supposed to count on Google for traffic but with their monopoly on search, many people do and their way to earn a living has just been tossed out with the Panda water.

So, get used to these "minor" updates. Remember there are many high paid PHD types working in the plex and they have to justify their jobs so they fiddle around with stuff with no regard to the collateral damages that it causes.

After all, we all don't really know anything anyway in Google's eyes because they know what's best for us.

[tedster]

Let's stop repeating all the same editorial commentary that we've been reading here for months - and get back to analyzing this update. That's why we're here and that's where the potential value lies.

We've got at least two new observations that would be good to hear more input about:

1. There's the observation about traffic throttling is intriguing. Are there any other reports here about sites that were seeing traffic throttling in 2010 and then got demoted by Panda this year? How about sites that got Pandalyzed but that never saw any throttling in the past?

2. There are a number of reports this time from sites who lost significant long-tail traffic but not their "head" terms. That's a new Panda behavior, as far as I know. So is it really new? Were there earlier Pandalyzed sites that didn't lose on their main terms? Are there other members here who only lost their long-tail traffic on Oct 13?

[Donna]

2. There are a number of reports this time from sites who lost significant long-tail traffic but not their "head" terms. That's a new Panda behavior, as far as I know. So is it really new? Were there earlier Pandalyzed sites that didn't lose on their main terms? Are there other members here who only lost their long-tail traffic on Oct 13?

I got alot of long tail back in the index since today but the placement is insane , it's as much as not being in the index at all. Here is a flickr comparing since Oct 13th.

[flickr.com ]

[chrism]

I've spent a couple of days looking at our rankings changes, and also those from the previous Panda updates (I'm assuming ranking change on the dates of Panda runs are related).

One pattern that seems clear from a specific set of sites is Panda runs, and we drop a few places, say #3 to #10, then slowly drift upwards to our original position (+/- a position or two). It's almost as if the point we reach the original position predicts the date of the next Panda run within a few days.

Could it be that the Panda algorithm starts at 100% of what it's measuring and slowly reverts a section of it's criteria, so a subset of the overall number of sites 'recover', only to be hit again with the next run when another combination of criteria are relaxed?

Generally speaking, the set of sites that improve with each run move to the bottom of page 1 and top of page two initially, before their slow ascent to their original spots (ish).

An alternative theory could be strong user interaction data for the new lower position causes the site to bounce back relatively quickly.

I should add, the specific set of sites referred to earlier is not necessarily the same with each run, although sites within the sets are common.

[arubicus]

1. There's the observation about traffic throttling is intriguing. Are there any other reports here about sites that were seeing traffic throttling in 2010 and then got demoted by Panda this year? How about sites that got Pandalyzed but that never saw any throttling in the past?

It has been a few years since I posted here. Tedster, I remember you being here during the ol' big daddy update. The update that took my site to it's grave.

I do have to say that throttling has been done before and I have seen it happen right before the big daddy update. Our traffic soared and so did our income.

So something like this occurring wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

However, after 5 years of scratching my way to bring back a bit of traffic and rankings we fell again yesterday. With this one there was NO throttle for us. No indication earlier this year. No nothing. Everything was consistent and stable.

I believe throttling does happen but may not be across the board.

[Elsmarc]

The problem with threads like this is no one says what type of site they're running. E-commerce? Forum(s)? Informational? Company web site(s)?

Without that information it's impossible to try to figure out *what types* of sites are being hit, or whether that makes a difference. There are enough different types of sites that knowing what type of site(s) are having problems, or knowing if there is something common to different type of sites being hit.

As to lost significant long-tail traffic, it's what I depend upon and I'm seeing just the opposite. Traffic is up significantly since 28 September. I don't know what happened on 28 September but my traffic and AdSense has jumped like a scared rabbit.

BTW - My sites are all forums, and while I did see a slow traffic decline pretty much across the board starting back about 5 months, every one is back up to where they were and one site in particular has topped it's previous high. AdSense income is also up dramatically.

[proboscis]

I saw a small recovery on Sept 27 but lost everything on Oct 4, no change with this round.

Was Oct 4-5 part of Panda?

[dertyfern]

Seeing some traffic recovery, though not significant.

I've got a small network of old/established, niche, city specific travel/content sites. Some with heavyish traffic, others with little. With exception, pretty much all hit hard by this update, but all were relatively unaffected by the last panda update.

Most sites are seeing a major drop in primary and long tail rankings, replaced by large players and spam--all of which have little content related to my niche.

Interestingly, the sites with heavy traffic got hit way harder (on a percentage basis) than those with historically low levels of traffic.

Traffic patterns have changed. Initial observation: appears to be a higher proportion of users from within each site's city theme and conversely a loss of users from out of these areas. Could imply that geo-targeting has been ratcheted up.

[bigcrags]

I got hit on the 14th. 80% down. Spent 10 years building up this site. I wouldn't mind if it was one I did nothing to but it was updated regularly and was a good source of income. Bad update Google.

[Sgt_Kickaxe]

ANOTHER minor update on evening of 15th/16th, not official but my site just had it's Panda effects reversed.

[google.com...] - 3 results out of 10 from tripadvisor

[google.com...] - first 3 results from tripadvisor again

Maybe next time I'm searching hotels anywhere I will use tripadvisor instead of Google :))

This results are total crap!

While I agree, the minor update I mentioned above seems to have shoved "booking.com" in front of trip advisor for both sets of results.

Google does not seem to value stability in rankings.

[tristanperry]

@tedster: Regarding the second point, that's not really what I experienced. None of my rankings seem to be in the same position. Even my site name has been downranked - below 6 video results, and a site with a similar - but different - name! One or two of my head terms are still on page 1, but #3-#4 ranks lower such that they're either below the fold, or not really visible.

But it does seem to be a bit of a sliding scale. My lower traffic rankings have then been shifted off page 1/2 and out of sight (I given up searching for some rankings where I used to be on page 2/3). So I'd say that there's been a general side-wide downranking, but the downrankings 'speed up'/are deeper as you go more into the lower-traffic rankings.

So none of my rankings have stayed the same (as far as I can tell). But a sliding scale pattern does seem to be emerging, which is odd.

The other thing I've noticed is so many people saying they've lost either 50% or 80% of their traffic (with more seeming to be in the latter group). Have previous Panda updates seen (what seems to be) such a structured loss of traffic?

[Whitey]

36 hours in :

-upward movement on 1 domain with UI / blocking /content improvements
-stable on domain with minimal content improvements
-downward movement on all sites without content improvements ( clearest indication to me that Google did not dish out the full extent of it's Panda wrath, with a 100% removal of traffic for some sites - the message to me is make adjustments fast or risk losing all of your site traffic )

No indexing, improved bounce rate alone having zilch effect to date.

All sites were subjected to throttling of traffic pre Panda. I do believe that Google watched how it rationed traffic out, but sense that Panda has relieved that approach by using "quality" rather than "quantity" restrictions. No evidence on the latter - just a hunch.

[menntarra 34]

Same here, 80% of traffic lost on the 14th of October, please google revert, make sense!

[disspy]

Well, it seems that each update brings some losers and winners. Google runs minor updates every 2 weeks and a major once in a month. Panda took a lot of casualties, but I think Google is really going to award the websites who really have something to offer to the customer/reader/viewer. There's a always space for improvement, and they did it all the time. Test - improvement, test - improvement, the question is for how long? We inspected, recognized and improved a lot of parts on our network and see improvements so far.

[walkman]

In my niche: smoked all kinds of sites, but the top top ones and spamy ones. The middle ground /class is gone! Who didn't get hurt in February was hit by one of the others and links or content didn't matter.
For a very popular keyword I had a blogspot post with a 300+X300+ adsense on top, a youtube (almost impossible to have the right answer in a video) and an ebay search (impossible to be right result). The rest were 'real businesses,' with many employees, PR firms and advertising budgets.

but I think Google is really going to award the websites who really have something to offer to the customer/reader/viewer.

I assure you that many sites that have "something to offer to the customer/reader/viewer" have been gone! Save your money.

[courier]

There are a number of reports this time from sites who lost significant long-tail traffic but not their "head" terms. That's a new Panda behavior, as far as I know. So is it really new? Were there earlier Pandalyzed sites that didn't lose on their main terms? Are there other members here who only lost their long-tail traffic on Oct 13?

I had three sites, previously unaffected, hit for the long tails, this is what the sites were going after, so a good chunk of traffic gone. Interestingly most of the positions were dropped around 6 places, so still getting searches. The new number 1 was perhaps #1 for widgets, but cheap widgets I was #1, now theys seem to be #1, 2 or 3 far all sorts of widgets, were as before thay would not have been top 10 for most. I will say what I said before though, red widgets are not the same as green widgets, nor are cheap green widgets the same as widgets.

Another site uneffected by Panda I have dropped one place a day before the latest Panda, it's back to the original place although jumped up two places yesterday at times. I seem to be picking up new long tail keywords for this site, although I will be in a better position by Tuesday to know how many. On a quick look it seems to be the older pages that are picking up most gains.

I feel we are not finished yet as Google seems to be tracking a serious number of clicks, I have noticed this previously before anything hapening.

[chalkywhite]

Busy few days making changes. ALL ads gone, will run for a month with ZERO ads. Also change the title structure across the site.

Went from pagetitle | Domainname

to

Pagetitle

Hoping removing the domain name from all pages/posts will hely with keyword density.

[besnette]

< moved from another location >

I replied to the Oct 14 Serps Changes Thread yesterday describing my story - I have a PR6 site, many, many very thorough articles that I personally wrote. All of my articles are 100% original content.

I did a look today and searched for full sentences from my articles - my site is nowhere to be found, but the scrapers are at #1.

How can this be? I mean, isn't the point of panda to reward those who through passion and hard work have created a great site that has had nothing but the best of feedback, to see lazy, unethical scrapers rise to the top?

I have spent 6 years building my content, to see it go away in favor of scrapers.

So, to "fix" this so my site can return, I have no idea where to start - because this is obviously unfixable from this standpoint..

[edited by: tedster at 4:30 pm (utc) on Oct 16, 2011]

[Bill_H]

Tedster:
Double checked our serps since my first post. Looks like our serps are somewhat stable, here and there we lost one or two positions, principally to Amazon, yet traffic remains down 40% and decreasing slightly more each day since the 13-14th.

Has to be throttling if the serps are moderately stable. We don't do adsense, but do use adwords - interestingly impressions are off a like amount. I am wondering if the throttling extends to adwords as well? Is anyone seeing that as well? Even more worrying, is that I am seeing no reports of recovery anywhere.

Cheers,
Bill

[menntarra 34]

How can this be? I mean, isn't the point of panda to reward those who through passion and hard work have created a great site that has had nothing but the best of feedback, to see lazy, unethical scrapers rise to the top?

My site which lost 60% of it's google traffic IS a scraper site, so MY scraper site is punished...
And by the way, a scraper can be GOOD. If you make a site with a lot of improvements, like summarizing useful topics about a specific problem etc... IT can be VERY VERY useful. So just to state that "a scraper is lazy, and unethical" is just not right.