Many Weeks since the Panda Update - Any Improvements? [part 2]

[rustybrick]

< continued from [webmasterworld.com...] >

So, still, no one is seeing any significant improvements?

[edited by: tedster at 5:00 pm (utc) on Mar 25, 2011]

[crobb305]

Wow, I just searched one of the big phrases that I have been saying shows Yahoo Answers at #1, but now it is showing 4 additional urls underneath (vertical, not typical horizontal sitelinks), so basically Yahoo Answers occupies about 2 inches of the screen in the top spot.

Have they entered into some kind of monetary agreement with Yahoo? lol. Horrible horrible results. Again, Google should be humiliated. It really seems like some college interns were assigned to create this algorithm as their capstone project.

[indyank]

WMT reports are a total mess when we most need them.They could either improve its quality or not provide it at all.It looks like G's main motive behind providing GWT is to have a record of sites and their owners.

[TheMadScientist]

It looks like G's main motive behind providing GWT is to have a record of sites and their owners.

LOL ... Do ya think?

I'm NOT picking on you indyank, I've had the same thought about the main motivation behind WMT and Analytics for quite a while. Why would a business pay the money they did for Analytics and then make it free, unless there's some 'hidden' ROI?

Do I think they use Analytics directly in the algo? No ... Would I be surprised if Analytics data was used as a 'guideline' for creating, comparing or 'tuning' an algo? Not at all ... I would actually be surprised if it wasn't...

[indyank]

TheMadScientist, I totally agree with you.

There are businesses who provide these services for a fee and they are much better than these kind of businesses who provide only free stuff and generate a ROI that could kill the innocent users.

[Mr3putt]

Even if it's for the short term, It might be a good idea to buy into bing stock.

[mromero]

"WMT reports are a total mess when we most need them.They could either improve its quality or not provide it at all.It looks like G's main motive behind providing GWT is to have a record of sites and their owners."

I agree that WMT is screwed up. I've given up trying to see the logic in some of the silly results it comes up with. I apply plain old common sense.

If a page is flagged for dropping a few positions I scan it and if nothing wrong, ignore and move on. If I find a page with real problems I can verify, such as duplicate descriptions, a broken link, missing alt etc., I fix it and move on the next.

After a couple of days the screwed up flag goes away all by itself.

Maybe these are honey pots aimed at tripping up webmasters doing tricky things?

[crobb305]

So I got up this morning and went straight to GWT. I examined my average page positions over the most recent 24hr period reported (March 30-31). Pages that had dropped 200 positions the day or two before, were up 100 positions (lots of green); but a couple more pages have dropped 200 positions (lots of red). Tomorrow, those reds will turn green. I have been seeing this "rolling" pattern for 3 weeks, as if Google is slowly re-indxing the entire site, page by page. A page will drop 200 or 300 positions, then it rises back to the top.

For that reason, I am reluctant to delete any more pages based on WebmasterTools. Either the data are severely flawed, or Google is literally re-indexing the entire web like it did after Caffeine. I know that is a big claim to make, but another member here already suggested that could be possible. I have watch page by page of my site (usually 2 or 3 pages at a time) drop 200 to 300 positions, then rise. Pages that fell 300 positions three weeks ago have already rebounded to an average position of 1 to 20.

If I were to look at my lowest-ranking pages right now (average positions 200+), and compare them to the lowest-ranking a week ago, they are different pages. They are not thin (like the original set of worst-ranking pages three weeks ago). Crawl by crawl, page by page, maybe there is hope for the site. Look at your WMT data to see if you notice this phenomenon.

After a couple of days the screwed up flag goes away all by itself.

mromeo, I just read your post above and it sounds like you are observing the same thing. Pages get flagged, then rise. Very interesting.

[crobb305]

I guess Google has been overwhelmed by URL removal requests from the removal tool, because MC made a post on his blog asking everyone to reduce the number of requests (essentially). Sounds like they have created a situation where an enormous amount of content is being eliminated from the web. No telling how many seemingly "thin" but valuable documents are being lost. I just saw his post so if it was already mentioned, I apologize for repeating.

[tedster]

The Matt Cutts article was just mentioned in annother thread, but it's worth mentioning here, too - and linking. See Overdoing url removals [mattcutts.com]

[GuyFromKlingon]

It looks like G's main motive behind providing GWT is to have a record of sites and their owners.

Why would Google want to collect records on site owners? That doesn't make any sense, Google is not in the data collection business.

Keep writing good content, visit Matt Cutt's blog often, talk to him, catch up with him at parties, chat long hours with any Google employee you find, tell them how great Google is, that is how you build reputation and gain ranks.

People complaining and whining and criticizing Google are only hurting themselves.

[crobb305]

Google is not in the data collection business

If this were true, there would be no data for their algorithms. All mathematical models/algorithms require data.

[walkman]

Almost all of my internal pages now have a March 28th-30th date so this is the third cache date since Panda. Serps are still in flux of course.

And I thought that Google will visit less 'bad pages.'

@crobb305, guyfromclingon is being sarcastic I think. Or I hope :)

[crobb305]

@Walkman, I thought that it was fun sarcasm until I saw his post over on the other thread that you just posted in [webmasterworld.com...] . Sounds like he's calling out lazy webmasters, based on his inexperience in this industry. But hey, I remember my first site 10 years ago, when it started making $10k a month, I thought I knew it all! Boy did I have a lot to learn about search engines, websites, algorithms, AND making even more money. lol

[tedster]

Keep writing good content, visit Matt Cutt's blog often, talk to him, catch up with him at parties, chat long hours with any Google employee you find, tell them how great Google is, that is how you build reputation and gain ranks.

That never worked for me - and I've partied past sunrise with Matt Cutts. There are no "suck up" points in the algorithm ;)

[mike2010]

Things are slowly getting worse here.

More with my latest post in this thread -

[webmasterworld.com...]

[edited by: tedster at 9:57 pm (utc) on Apr 29, 2011]
[edit reason] maintenance [/edit]

[rlange]

crobb305 wrote:
I've been using WMT to monitor average positions. What is complicating matters is that I will see a page drop 300 positions, then start to rise; or a page will show average position of 300 (or a huge 300-position drop), but with a simultaneous increase in impressions of 20%+. Very confusing data with little to no consistency.

indyank wrote:
WMT reports are a total mess when we most need them.They could either improve its quality or not provide it at all.

OK, good. I was getting quite frustrated with myself that I couldn't seem to interpret those reports properly.

I mean, I currently have one page showing an average position of 290, a change of -300, and a +4,900% change in impressions (which are sitting at 600 currently). Is it getting better or is it getting worse? Are more people diving to page 28+ of the SERPs to find what they're looking for? *plucks another gray hair from his head*

~Ryan

[Jane_Doe]

My webmaster tools reports show dramatic shifts in traffic from one day to the next on one site that was Panda impacted, but the reality is that overall traffic on the site has actually been very stable. I think you have to take the webmaster tools reports with a grain of salt.

[crobb305]

Speaking of WMT data, it's interesting to me that Googlebot is still requesting pages that I 410'd a couple of week ago. I had some recent requests yesterday. I thought 410 would signal to Googlebot to stop requesting them, but perhaps it is checking to make sure they are gone and staying gone? Or, is it normal for Gbot to keep requesting them? There are no external discovery points, so Gbot isn't following links to the dead pages.

[GuyFromKlingon]

That never worked for me - and I've partied past sunrise with Matt Cutts. There are no "suck up" points in the algorithm ;)

OMG I didn't mean it that way, as if benefitting from meeting the guy! I meant, to be nice to him, be friends, party after sunrise and you know...that's what I meant.

I know google's algorithm is nearly perfect, there is no way to influence it by hand, I know that.

Google is the single greatest best search engine ever and will continue to be. I'm sorry if I made it look like there's politics or something.

I'm loving this thread, I am learning so much, everything here is so true. This is my first time here and I love Google and all you folks.

[grimmer]

folks, any updates on the improvements? would like to know whether people are making good progress.

[Pjman]

any updates on the improvements?

Just the inverse of progress. Some of my bigger terms I have dropped an additional 2-3 places for. No positive movement since Panda day.

[dazzlindonna]

grimmer.... Progressively getting worse. I guess that's a form of progress. Just not the one I'd prefer.

[walkman]

Progress no, Google has a set target and isn't stopping.

[Content_ed]

On both of my sites that were killed by Panda, Google has changed the sitelinks. In one case, I'd say their choice of sitelinks has improved a little, they seem to be trusting my navigation for subject headings rather than just choosing the pages with the most incoming links. On the other site I can't say, since they dropped the sitelinks altogether:-)

[incrediBILL]

The problem I'm having is now that I need googlebot most, it seems to be slowing down and crawling slowing in the obvious face of mass changes where faster would be better!

Typical

[clickshops]

The problem I see in the area I work (travel), is too many entries from Tripadvisor forums showing in the results.

Not a problem if they are recent threads, but some of the threads that are appearing near the top of the results haven't had a posting for over 4 years!

How fresh is that?

[walkman]

Techcrunch had a thread on Tripadvisor how a very popular Paris related search term was #1 in Google and was 100% text ads. Some sites can't help but rank even for wildcard searches.

[crobb305]

Was Panda ever confirmed in the UK? Has it spread anywhere else?

I was searching some financial information earlier and I was coming across an India classifies site showing up in the top 3 here in the U.S. The classifieds have sexual phrases on them but ranking for financial terms. Very inappropriate, and they get 4 suggested urls.

[gyppo]

We implemented some "noarchive" on thin pages the day after Panda hit, I'm seeing approx 3,000 URL's being removed from index every day.

Still not seeing any improvement in traffic or positioning yet though.

[zerillos]

@Crobb
I think it rolled out in other parts of the world too. If not panda, smth else did happen between april 1st and 2nd.