Google Muscles Yelp over Reviews

[Brett_Tabke]

Telegraph.co.uk [izurl.com...]

“We are unhappy with the way Google uses our users’ review on its Places page. However, there is no solution to the problem… Google’s position is that we can take ourselves out of its search index if we don’t want them to use our reviews on Places…. But that is not an option for us, and other sites like us – such as TripAdvisor – as we get a large volume of our traffic via Google search...We just don’t get any value out of our reviews appearing on Google places and haven’t been given an option other than to remove ourselves from search, how to improve this situation.

[kevina]

I understand these reviews are posted by users... So there are not the content of Yelp, it is OUR content (we, the net surfers).
And we do not care if it is on Places or Yelp...

[wheel]

No, it is Yelp's content. User Generated Content is the site's, not the users.

[roycerus]

I think a link back to Yelp is required and should make them VERY happy. Standard "Fair Use" issue won't you say.

[derektaylor]

Google is stealing Yelp's reviews. Plain and simple. Yelp's reviews do not belong to Google. Google is stealing content, not linking to it and posting it without proper attribution. How is this not evil? This is Microsoft-like, bullying behavior.

[Planet13]

How is this not evil?

It's not evil; It's business.

[derektaylor]

If Google was stealing your content, not linking to it and posting it without proper attribution, you'd be singing a different tune, Planet13. Especially if it was harming your ability to hire and keep employees. Business may be business, but this is exactly why antitrust laws exist.

[caribguy]

Maybe I'm not seeing the same as you all?

[restaurant name] [metropolitan area]

On the main results page, the featured review (next to the map) has a linked attribution. On the place page, review snippets, photos, etc all have attributions....

You could say that G is the 'great equalizer' - maybe that's why Yelp is crying and 2nd tiers (i.e. the IAC properties) are so quiet....

[Planet13]

Business may be business, but this is exactly why antitrust laws exist.

How could it be antitrust? Who is forcing web surfers to use google instead of bing, yahoo, blekko, wolframalpha, duck duck go, or the thousands of other search engines out there?

If yelp is so upset, they can just block googlebot in their robots.txt file. Yelp doesn't HAVE to have their content appear in google if they don't want it to.

Where is the outrage at all the blogs / news aggragators that scrape "headlines" or "excerpts"? That seems a lot more like stealing to me than what google does with yelp's reviews.

[Whitey]

Tough luck IMO . Google gives traffic & users can find YELP direct if they want. This is a nothing complaint.

We may not like Google's dominance , but that's the way it is.

[TheMadScientist]

Uh, people, I don't like to have to be the one who goes and gets all logical, but don't you think if Google was really stealing Yelp's content someone at Yelp would have been smart enough to call one of their attorneys and filed a little DMCA complaint, then taken them to court or something crazy like that?

The fact this seems to be a 'media fight' rather than a legal one seems to indicate Google is not in the wrong to use the content the way they do.

...

Please also remember, as soon as there is a precedent set legally, whatever the new rule is, it can be much more easily applied to you once it applies to Google (or anyone), so, much like the Farmer update: Be Careful What You Ask For...

[graeme_p]

Can someone show me an example of Google doing anything wrong here?

All I can see are snippets of reviews, with a link to the original page. It works just like the normal SERPS, and we all want to be in the SERPS.

I think these sites problem is that places makes Google a starting point for reading reviews: i.e. a user will go to the places page and pick which reviews to read, rather than going Google for something like "[city] restaurant [reviews]" and going to their site. They lose control, gain users who come through Google at the cost of direct visitors.

[walkman]

How could it be antitrust? Who is forcing web surfers to use google instead of bing, yahoo, blekko, wolframalpha, duck duck go, or the thousands of other search engines out there?

And people could have used Linux, apple or ... instead of Windows. Those arguments were answered to long time ago [secure.wikimedia.org...]

[FranticFish]

As Mad, said, if that judgement was relevant to this issue then legal action would have been taken relying on that case a a precedent.

That judgement refers Microsoft bundling IE with Windows software, and key to this was the fact that
(a) uninstalling IE made Windows work badly and,
(b) Microsoft pretty much refused to issue a version of Windows without IE

I can uninstall the Google toolbar from any browser or Chrome from my computer and everything will work fine.

I'm not saying I necessarily like what Google are doing, but I don't see that it breaks any law.

[skibum]

The sole purpose of a corporation is to make money, ultimately. It still doesn't seem right to act in this manner though. As much as we can say if you don't like the way Google plays then go play elsewhere it is getting to the point where it's like trying to drive across the country without using any roads.

[Reno]

As much as we can say if you don't like the way Google plays then go play elsewhere it is getting to the point where it's like trying to drive across the country without using any roads.

Great line skibum, and very true. The whole "Google ~ love it or leave it" attitude is a tired, empty, meaningless cliche. The only way we can know how algo changes impact our websites (read: livelihood) is to come to venues like this and express ourselves. My deep thanks to tedster, Brett, and everyone else for making it possible.

.....................

[J_RaD]

That judgement refers Microsoft bundling IE with Windows software, and key to this was the fact that
(a) uninstalling IE made Windows work badly and,
(b) Microsoft pretty much refused to issue a version of Windows without IE

I can uninstall the Google toolbar from any browser or Chrome from my computer and everything will work fine.

how about all the dell and HP computers over the past 8 years that have come with the goog toolbar pre-installed?

[JohnRoy]

>> how about all the dell and HP computers over the past 8 years that have come with the goog toolbar pre-installed?

I can uninstall the Google toolbar

[kidder]

If you assume your content has value and its being reproduced on another site without permission what steps do you take? Should it matter who does the stealing?

[J_RaD]

I can uninstall the Google toolbar

a non-power user doesn't do this and simply lives with all this preinstalled junk on their computer.

even if a normal user did uninstall the goog toolbar, they probably don't know it still leaves behind the "goog updater" that just silently lurks in the background.

[brnoyank]

Comparisons between MS & Google are off-base. While they're both tech companies, they're dominant in VERY different sectors - we all know this. And they employ very different strategies to unlawfully remain dominant. It's apples & oranges.

Google's antitrust issues aren't the same as Microsoft's. Google doesn't force use upon anyone, but have long been propping up their leverage through "behind the curtain" quality adjustments to their own advertisements and properties. . .and conversely sabotaging competitors.

Anyone remember Youtube showing in top 5 for so many searches before Google bought it?

Google will find itself in the crosshairs of governments - it's just a matter of time. But let's not compare MS to G - one committed murder against opensource, the other is a serial rapist of online businesses (who don't pay their tithe).


And for all those claiming that it's "just business":

"Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony, and, on conviction thereof, shall be punished by fine...."

[Reno]

Welcome brnoyank ~ outstanding first post!

[FranticFish]

a non-power user doesn't do this and simply lives with all this preinstalled junk on their computer

Maybe so. But the key difference is that if they do uninstall the toolbar or Chrome EVERYTHING ELSE WILL STILL WORK FINE.

That is the difference. That is why that case is NOT relevant. I'm not a lawyer and I get that. Yelp no doubt have teams of lawyers who get it too. That's why they're mouthing off in the press instead of writing letters before action.