Google Updates and SERP Changes - March 2011

[Whitey]

< continued from [webmasterworld.com...] >

< related Panda Farm Update [webmasterworld.com] >

I keep dropping mentions of this , but no takeup , so i did some digging, for clues to my theory Chrome's passing back intelligence that could influence this new algo and future changes :

New Chrome extension: block sites from Google's web search results
Monday, February 14, 2011 | 12:00 PM

Today the Google web search team launched a new Chrome extension to block low-quality sites from appearing in Google’s web search results. Read more in the post below, cross-posted from the Official Google Blog. - Ed


[chrome.blogspot.com...]

Also - [webmasterworld.com...]

I think user behaviour data is being underestimated in this thread. Each website will have an depth profile building that feeds into a potential quality assessment by Google. What say you ?

[edited by: tedster at 8:15 pm (utc) on Mar 15, 2011]

[kd454]

@tedster

"but most sites are not really fixing the core issues."

How do we fix the core issues, the only clue we have got from Google is to remove "thin" pages (the definition of "thin" is up in the air), so this must be the core issue.. The rest is all speculation.

[walkman]

I hear you - and I do expect a full new crawl and re-evaluation. In fact, I expect that will be done dynamically and as an ongoing process the way all ranking scores are done. Maybe that's already happening, but most sites are not really fixing the core issues. Hard to say with no one reporting a lot of success, just little bitty gains.

I am personally no longer willing to call thsee Panda effects a "penalty" - we need to use another word very much to avoid false hopes. Penalties can be lifted, but these ranking losses will clearly not be removed the way it can happen with a penalty.

It's a whole new algorithm scoring method, so we're really seeing a "devaluation".

Tedster, they are two issues IMO. Good sites that have the information and those that don't. Judging by what we have seen on 'good' sites two things were were noticed : Too many ads, and thin content. The thin content was mostly user generated or tags. In fact if you follow JohnMu on Google this is one point he always pushes: remove or noindex the thin content and wait for google to scan etc. Even Google felt the need to let people know about the to many 'bad pages will cause the entire site to tank so move them to another domain,' (paraphrased). Personally I feel betrayed because Matt Cutts himself had said that tags help google index content and don't worry about duplicates since we can tell.

So, IMO, Google assigned each page a score and then based on that assigned each site a score. If XX% of your pages got a failing grade, then your entire site is demoted. I also believe that the site recalculation is not done on a day to day basis as it's too resource intensive, but like in old times when all of the sudden dozens of people would say "We're back," or 'we're screwed.' Post Panda people have lost a lot more traffic but I have yet to hear one that came back (friends of Wired.com editors excluded) so my guess is that Google hasn't run that calculation yet. Maybe it's wishful thinking of course. If you remove what Google penalized you for the site devalution should also be removed.

Edit to add link to Google support thread: [google.com...]

Ironically my 3 other semi-automated sites are doing much better after Panda.

[edited by: walkman at 1:09 am (utc) on Mar 25, 2011]

[nuthin]

Looks like Google has rolled out a major update for sites that have put in the leg work <6 months ago.

I have a WHOLE HEAP of clients now ranking accordingly.

As expected.. GOOD TIMES for these sites over the past 3 days.

[Shatner]

>>>Maybe that's already happening, but most sites are not really fixing the core issues.

Speaking for myself, if there's another thing I could possibly fix, I can't think of it.

Certainly at least SOME sites have to have fixed the core issues, whatever those are (no one knows). But no one at all has reported any improvement.

So as a reason for no change so far, that doesn't really hold much water don't you think?

[Shatner]

>>Personally I feel betrayed because Matt Cutts himself had said that tags help google index content and don't worry about duplicates since we can tell.

If it really was tags, yeah I think we should all be pretty pissed. Tag listings shouldn't be thin content, they're just listings. In my case they're actually useful, they really help us with our user experience to let users find more info on the things they're interested in.

I've nofollowed my tags now, but didn't before because I had no idea I should. It certainly wasn't a case of trying to fool google and foist thin content on people, so it does seem like if Panda is counting "tags" as thin content then that's a serious, and obvious flaw in the new algorithm... and one of the things that you'd think they might want to fix in future updates.

[Shatner]

>>Looks like Google has rolled out a major update for sites that have put in the leg work <6 months ago.

Not sure what you mean. So you're saying that these sites weren't impacted by Panda, but are now seeing big changes?

[Shatner]

Here's a factor to consider.

Google has to be under a tremendous amount of pressure NOT to change Panda from a lot of very powerful people. Panda shifted $1 billion in revenue from small publishers without any real power to large publishers with a ton of lawyers and clout behind them...

[blog.searchenginewatch.com...]

That's a lot of money that those powerful corporations are NOT going to want to give up, but if Google fixes Panda then they will be forced to.

It's probably in Google's best interest to keep servicing those people and let the rest of us die. Don't you think?

We all know Panda is flawed and we assume that Google would want to fix it... but there is probably way more pressure on them NOT to fix it than there is to fix it. Especially with the tech media remaining completely silent.

[snickles121]

Shatner wrote: "Panda shifted $1 billion in revenue from small publishers without any real power to large publishers with a ton of lawyers and clout behind them..."

Google has so much money in the bank, I doubt they are afraid of anyone.

[snickles121]

I would like to point out what I found in the past about re caches and rankings. Last year before I went on vacation for a week I updated my index page, but I accidentally loaded the wrong index page for that site. I come home a week later and I discovered my mistake. Now this index page was 100 percent unrelated to that sites niche. The page was recached 3 days before I got home with that wrong index page. My point im trying to make is that I still had all my keywords with no traffic or ranking change. That just goes to show you there has to be some sort of delay in recaches and rankings change.

Hope this helps some of you.

[nuthin]

Not sure what you mean. So you're saying that these sites weren't impacted by Panda, but are now seeing big changes?

Big changes for sites that have put in the initial leg work <6 months ago. Link strategies were deployed with basic on-page SEO to these clients dead on around 6 months ago.

They are now being given some authority to compete and rank.

These would all be pretty much "new sites" in my eyes as I just started work here for this co. 6 months ago and they were not deploying quality link strategies.

From experience it's not too unusual and fairly normal for these sites to start to rise ... which seems to be the case. Good to see they are starting to emerge. :-)

[tedster]

We can all expect to see the algo shift again, and again, and again. Panda will not stay as it is, just as Florida changes did not stay as they were at launch.

It's good to see some reports of current changes in this thread - that's why we maintain it every month.

So @nothin - please tell us more. You are a lone voice right now talking about a major update over the past 3 days. What are you seeing?

[nuthin]

Movement and consolidation over the past week. Looks to be nearing an end from experience if these results continue to hold (that I'm seeing, check your PM).

[koan]

I've nofollowed my tags now

Funny how the Panda update "for the users" ends up requiring making changes that devalue user experience in favor of chasing the algorithm.

[Bewenched]

This update had impacted content based sites (including forums and directories) much more than ecommerce.

It dropped our ecommerce site at least 35%, maybe it was because we had articles.. maybe 10 on the site, mainly how to guides for doing certain things, not a content farm. All I know is that a site and it's contents that took me 13 years to build by hand including content and product descriptions is seriously harmed and the frustrating thing is that I cannot do anything about it.

[Gorgwatcher]

@walkman
yes...i can confirm that I am getting exactly two datasets of serps like in May day...

[walkman]

Funny how the Panda update "for the users" ends up requiring making changes that devalue user experience in favor of chasing the algorithm.

Absolutely true. I visit a few big blogs and I follow certain stories more than others. Instead of scrolling through I always type example.com/newstype that I am interested in. That way I get the latest 5-whatever stories they did on that and don't have to scroll through pages after page.

Huge sites can still get away with it, but we must build for Panda. I am leaving some bamboo shoots at the door too :)

[Gorgwatcher]

I think this algo is considering onpage rather than backlink profile....so some good areas to explore are

1. website industry
2. traffic on week before panda and traffic on upto 4 weeks after panda
3. bounce rate each week
4. Adsense %(though they do not seems to be a factor now)
5. Content Uniqueness
6. Content vs navigation, sidebar ratio
7. Irrelevant rankings(Sometime your website rank on keywords which are not related to the website)
8. Onpage SEO (hardcore, medium, low)
9. Site nature(dynamic or static) & size of website
10. Internal linking structure

it will b great if someone add some more areas to this

@all...if anyone is interested in sharing anonymous data with us, without naming there websites.... we are more than happy to form a private group to investigate these changes. Please PM me. we have the data of more than 5 million visitors per month to play with.

[tedster]

Some other on-page areas I'm exploring:

1. Reading level (Google rolled this information into the SERPs after they started work on Panda this past year)

2. Semantic richness, as detailed in the phrase-based indexing patents

3. Spelling and grammar.

I'm also studying sites that show improved stats beginning on Feb 24. What's interesting to me is that their Google traffic increases seem to be for better targeted keywords and sending those visitors to better targeted pages. This is a subjective sense that's been building. As I analyze one site and then another, I keep seeing this shift.

[tigger]

I'm seeing some very odd results - changes started yesterday / last night and it seems like spam has returned and quality has been dropped

I've got some old sites that shouldn't be ranking and have suddenly gone from nowhere to top 5 and sites that were being developed following current G tends have vanished ! crazy

[Gorgwatcher]

@tedster

yup the good point of this update is that there is only a minor shift in Conversion. The traffic is decreased but the conversion is still ok compare to traffic.

also i did research on reading level but the max i concluded was its depending on page length. how much you have to scroll :)

[walkman]

I'm seeing some very odd results - changes started yesterday / last night and it seems like spam has returned and quality has been dropped

I've got some old sites that shouldn't be ranking and have suddenly gone from nowhere to top 5 and sites that were being developed following current G tends have vanished ! crazy

This happens sometimes before /during /after an update. Data-centers are sending stuff back and fourth, filters not applied totally and so on. That SERPS are moving it's clear. Now did the update happen yet or not...

[frank72]

I'm seeing some very odd results - changes started yesterday / last night and it seems like spam has returned and quality has been dropped

I've got some old sites that shouldn't be ranking and have suddenly gone from nowhere to top 5 and sites that were being developed following current G tends have vanished ! crazy

I was waiting for a message like that! (in fact I have been checking this thread quite often lately!)

Yesterday (24/03) my blog experienced a big fluctuation. A couple of strong keywords went down and I experienced a strong traffic drop...out of nowhere! My traffic lost 20% and I wonder what it is going on. Yesterday was the biggest hit after the Panda update...anyone expericed this?

[tigger]

@frank72

I can't see the current serps lasting as I know my site thats now ranking for all its targeted terms is about as spammy as it comes and shouldn't be ranking as its not had any development work, links in fact not touched for years

When that drops which it will others will recover in

[AlyssaS]

AlyssaS 4:06 am on Mar 24, 2011 (gmt 0)

Is anyone else seeing an unusual jump in traffic and rankings starting March 22nd (to well above pre-panda levels)?

Just to report - the surge is continuing and it's from Google.com (American traffic). Don't know if it is something I'm doing or whether it was down to another tweak to their algo on March 22nd.

FWIW, I'm on the first page for a competitive term for the first time in about six months, and there's a lot of churning on the page between three sites, one of which is mine - every day one of us rotates into the #2 position, and the rest occupy #3 and #7. It's just these three positions moving. They are obviously testing something. Have fingers crossed and just hope the changes I've made mean users like mine best.

If this continues and is not just a short term "test" on G's part, will report back on what I did. And yes, this site of mine was at the top of page 2 pre panda, and then dropped to page 4 immediately after, so it is a Panda affected site.

[snickles121]

Heres a interesting fact. Now when I check my incoming clicks and page impressions in Google webmaster tools. Why our my page impressions and clicks the exact same thing for each Mon, Tue, and for each Wed and for each Thurs. There is no way that it can be exactly the same for each day as the previous weeks unless Google only allows me that much traffic. It was never like this before Panda.

[snickles121]

Can anyone confirm this in their site. And could this be a part of a bigger test to see who performs better on top?

[tristanperry]

I seen a nice jump in traffic (not sure about rankings; don't monitor them really) starting March 23rd. Is probably about 25-30% higher than my Feb and March averages.

Perhaps some changes brewing?

[econman]

page impressions and clicks the exact same thing

Are you saying that both impressions and clicks are identical -- for example comparing Monday of week one to Monday of week two?

Sounds like a data glitch. I can imagine reasons for some of the data to match (e.g. coincidence, or an artifact of some sort of A:B testing by Google), but no way lots of data would be replicated from one week to the next unless there is a bug in WMT or the underlying data fed into WMT.

[snickles121]

econman: Thats what im saying, my page impressions and clicks are exactly identical to the previous weeks. So for example, the last 3 weeks of data shows 5000 impression and 500 clicks for every tues and every wed and every thurs. It looks like it just stops at a certain point. Maybe this is why we see rankings jump around so much.

I would say it was a data glitch, but it started happening the day after Panda.

[tedster]

I would not depend on WMT for analytics. I wouldn't even depend on GA alone for analytics, but at least that is its core function. WMT gets buggy too often.