Help Please - How to Get Double Listing Number 1 from Number 2

[MrFewkes]

All,

I have a site doing very well in the serps. It is a straight HTML index page which is ranking - the root index.html

It is at position 2 in the serps for its 2 word phrase of blue widget.

The thing is (google.co.uk) - number 1 has a double listing - it has its root index page at number 1 - and then at number 2 - it has blue_widget.html

It has the indented or + listing (depending on browser).

So - the this means he is pushing me below all the google drivel - shopping/youtube - effectively my site is at about slot 5 with this in mind.

Its ever more important to be at number 1 for this reason alone as we know for product searches with youtube drivel in there aswell.

So - what do I do? I created a page - blue_widget.html and linked to it with the blue widget anchor - so we are equal on that front now.

I have 200 great dofollow links - compared to his 40 or so profile spam links.

I need him GONE!

This week - he lost his double listing putting my site at the number 2 spot and my traffic doubled. Why does the double listing go from time to time for these sites - only to return?

More info - our domains are the same age give or take a couple of months. On google.com my site is number 1 with no double listing, his is number 3 - no double listing. On google.co.uk - its as I described.

What can I do to get the double listing and beat him - I get the feeling hes only ranking now because he got that double listing and is therefore more trusted. Even though hes a profile link spammer - banned from taking payments by his payment processor - and now just directs his traffic to a cruddy affiliate program!

Im at a loss - I need help - what can I do to beat him down?

Do I need more links?
Do I need more deep links?
Do I need to update content (ive already done this for months on end to no avail)
Do I need to add more content?

What am I missing?

If anyone is feeling generous - I would really appreciate a heads up.

Cheers

[Robert Charlton]

Clustered double listings (which I think you're describing) are getting rarer as Google experiments with different serps arrangements.

Clustering occurs when you've got two pages returned on the same serps page for the same query. When Google has clustering on (generally what they've been doing for the past many years), if you had a #2 position and moved another of your pages up to #10, the #10 would be clustered together with #2 and be moved up to the #3 position and indented.

If you're really dominant for a query (say one of the words is in your company name), you may get additional listings, possibly a group of 4, or possibly a plus icon to show more results from....

As Google plays with different serps arrangements, not all multiple listings are clustered. I've seen a domain have a #2 and a #9, position, eg (that's pulling an example out of the air, but I'm relatively sure I've seen it).

A risk of targeting the same terms too often is that you're putting many eggs in one basket, and you may end up wasting inbound link equity that might be better used targeting a variety of phrases.

I get the feeling hes only ranking now because he got that double listing and is therefore more trusted.

He's got the double-listing because he is more trusted, at least in a given word-space. There's a chicken and egg aspect to this, though, since several unique pages on the same topic can reenforce each other, if they are respected enough to gather independent relevant inbound links... and different enough that Google feels that both are worth returning.

[aakk9999]

If you're really dominant for a query...

Robert is correct - from what I have seen, if a domain is very focused and dominant for a query, it gets 2 or more clustered listings.

We had an interesting case with attempt to remove competitor's double entry only a couple of months ago - with interesting outcome:

A client is #3 for their main keyword. The first two listings on that SERP were double listing (home page and internal page) from a competitor with exact match keyword domain. The competitor's #2 listing was a page whose content was taken almost word for word from client's printed brochure.

Client emailed the competitor asking politely to remove content copied from his brochure from competitor's site. The competitor complied immediately and rather than taking the content down, they took the whole page down - the next day his page was returning HTTP 404.

A week later, Google replaced competitor's #2 entry (that was now giving 404) with a different (already existing) competitor's page.

The "new" #2 page had a completely different content, but was on the same subject of the query.

So we concluded it is not JUST the competitor's page that has to be taken down or beaten in order to move up ranking - in many cases it is domain authority for the query. If Google feels the domain deserves double (or triple etc) listing, it gets it. I saw this happen more often with domains that focus narrowly on the subject.

[aakk9999]

I would like to add something else with regards to clustered listing. There seem to be two types of it - Robert mentioned both of them.

The first one is where if you have two entries ranked on the same page and Google would "join them up". This has been around for quite a some time and it used to have "indented" second and sometimes subsequent listing of the same domain.

You could detect these by changing search parameters in URL with adding &num= parameter and working backward reducing it from 9 towards 2 (note - this will not work if you have instant enabled, you have to disable instant search first).

If this is a true clustered double entry, then at some point the competitor's second entry would disappear. This is how you can work out on which position the competitor's second listing (that joins the first in listing, creating double listing) is. If the second entry is somewhere at the bottom of the first SERPs page, to remove double listing, you have to push it to the second SERPs page. One of tactic is helping either yourself (if you are on the second page too) to climb up and overtake competitor or even to another competitor on the second page climbing up sufficiently to push the "main" competitor off the first page, which will remove their double listing. But this all depends on which position the competitor's listing is.

However, from what I have also seen, there seem to be a second way Google has started to award double, triple or 4x clusters, and this is to do with domain dominance mentioned by Robert - and I am seeing more and more of this sort of multiple listings for a domain. The above tactic will not work in this case, as seen from my previous post above.

The only way here is to build your domain dominance for the keyword and in that way replace the competitor. But in some cases I have seen two domains have 4 entries each, taking 8 positions from SERPs, so even if you build your dominance, you may get your clustered listing, but it does not mean the competitor will lose theirs and may still be above you.

[MrFewkes]

Perfect. This info is amazing to me.

The competitors second page disappears with &num=8 - this is great news as I only have to get my internal page ranking on page 1 which will be easy as its on page 4 at the moment, and bump up a couple of other random pages onto page 1 with link spam to get rid of his double listing. I like! This is especially cool because he also has 3 other domains in the top ten - all junk.

The low position of his clustered second page is an indicator as to why he sometimes loses his double listing - natural movement in the serps will bob that page on and off the bottom on a fairly regular basis.

I cant thank you guys enough for this.

Of course when I come back to this thread in a week or two - I will want to know about the concept of "Domain Dominance"! to boot him from number 1 aswell :)

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it.

[MrFewkes]

Damn it - I cant help but ask - Im sorry.

Whats the best way to build my domain dominance?

Im not lazy - ive worked REALLY hard to build my link profile over 18 months! - Its been a slog.

Can you tell me a bit more about domain dominance?

I have a domain - not the one we are talking about here.

This other domain is - i believe - enjoying "dominance".

It is as follows:

PR3
9 Years Old
root index ranks at......
Number 1 for a phrase - red widget
Called redwidgetthingy.com
Has at its number 1 spot - 6 links beneath it from google in the serp - all of them link to subpages of the site - colour of the links is blue and the anchor of these google provided links are the titles of the sub pages.
Beneath these links - there is another line "More Results from redwidgetthingy.com" - again from google.
I believe these to be called "Site Links" - not sure.

The domain has been listed like this for about 5 years - never budged.

The thing is - I have NO IDEA how it got to be like that - non-whatsoever and I would really like to know.

Cheers