Internal links and drop in rankings

[member22]

Can a few internal links linking to my homepage with the exact anchor text I am looking to rank for cause a sudent drop in ranking ? or are a few links ( less than 10 on a 30 page webites ) not enough for causing that drop

If so how long to recover once I remove the links ?

[aristotle]

It's possible that excessive repetition of the same anchor text could have cause rankings to fall, but there is no way to know for sure. Also, there is no way to know if rankings would return if the links were changed or removed. It's probably worth trying, but you can't be sure that it will work.

[cloudtap]

You have to look at your data over 6 months in order to get the proper quantitatively substantial data so that you could make the proper choices and come up with the relevant data. Check over 6 months and just watch the SERPs, the Google dance goes on for a long time so get used to a ton of factors influencing your rankings and traffic

[member22]

Aristotle I don't agree with you there is no way google could penalize someone forever ... but like you said it is worse trying but who knows how long it is going to take google to cache that page again and redo its calculation ...

By the way how often is the google dance ( what I call google dance is when google reranks sites.. every week day or once a month ?)

[AnkitMaheshwari]

Google Dance term used to be a thing of the past when it took several days by Google to update and synchronize all data centers and ranking generally used to remain constant for a certain period (1-2 months)of time.
Now, Google keeps ranking-re-ranking pages almost constantly at the backend after the caffeine update last year.

Regarding drop in rankings, I do not think it can be due to internal linking anchor text unless you are using a 3-4 word unusual anchor text many times on each page. Because if that was the case then all big sites (with millions of pages) would have some drop in rankings due to common anchors in Header/footer pointing to same pages.

[topr8]

i agree with AnkitMaheshwari

you need to look elsewhere as to what the drop is caused by.

[FranticFish]

Maybe the OP's site doesn't have enough trust to balance out overdone anchor texts. If the text throughout the site is not considered quality by Google and there are questionable links with the same anchor text then a penalty is at least possible.

However, as Cloudtap said, the only way to be sure that you've been pushed down by your own actions rather than replaced by the actions of others or Google switching around its SERPs is to study the SERP variations in Google day to day for your niche.

Added: also, starting out with multiple internal anchor texts (or even adding them one at a time as you add new pages) isn't the same as adding multiple internal anchor texts to an existing site in one go.

[indyank]

Think at how will people normally link to their home page.They will either use "Home" (usually in the menu) or the Home page title, which will usually have the domain name in it.

If you link to it with anything other than the above, and you did so now, it would have affected you.

It is not about 10 or 20 pages.Link to your Home page with its title (at the top)and keep it natural.If you do link to it anywhere else (like menu), you can use "Home" but not keyword stuffed anchor text.

[TheMadScientist]

I think it could well be the addition of the links...

Think about it for a minute:

1.) There are currently links to the home page containing other text.
2.) The home page content has not (I'm guessing) significantly changed.
3.) There are links added to some pages pointing to the already linked home page.
4.) The content of the pages (I'm guessing) has not significantly changed.
5.) The linked text is all the same.

I don't need a degree in BS to know you're trying to influence rankings.

[indyank]

Is it addition of new links or you changed the anchor of existing links to Home page? If it is the former, are these above the existing ones?

[aristotle]

Aristotle I don't agree with you there is no way google could penalize someone forever

Well, that's really not what I said.

I said "it's possible" that excessive repetition of the same anchor could have caused the problem, but that "there is no way to know for sure".

I don't think anyone can give you a definite yes or no answer.

[Shaddows]

Terminology intervention.

1) Loss of rankings is not a penalty.
2) Loss of rankings due to an action or inaction is not a penalty.
3) Reversing an action that did not cause a penalty cannot remove a non-existant penalty
4) Reversing an action that caused ranking drop (even if you could determine cause and effect, which you can't) will not re-estabilish the previous rankings.

WRT number 4, this is not simply because the other sites have moved on. Maybe the best way to think about it is, "you can't uncook an egg".

None of this relates to the OP's initial question, but addresses a worrying laxness with terminology in subsequent discussion

While I'm there, the Google Dance was an approximately monthly batched reranking, which stopped with Florida and the Big Daddy infrastructure. With Big Daddy, there was a shift to smaller batched reranking, so changes took a while (hours to days, sometimes weeks on stale, low PR sites) to show. Caffeine is meant to do away with batching, so changes are reflected in rankings as soon as they are indexed. "Indexed" is not the same as "crawled" and certainly nothing to do with "cached"

[tedster]

Shaddows - thank you!

Your point #4 is especially important, because in the old days you could just revert and see rankings return. But as you say "you can't uncook an egg".

Back to the original question: "Can a few internal links linking to my homepage with the exact anchor text I am looking to rank for cause a sudent drop in ranking ? or are a few links ( less than 10 on a 30 page webites ) not enough for causing that drop"

The answer is yes, changing keyword links to the home page has been known to create problems. And you did it on 10 out of 30 pages - that's a big percentage. There have been posts here going back at least a year or two reporting the same thing.

So Google now knows that you manipulated internal anchor text in an attempt to rank better. You've already "cooked that egg" and you can't un-cook it. It's part of your site's history.

[member22]

Tedster - thank you

what you are saying is interesting but isn't the goal of google to give a change to everyone, if it is the way they think the websites that are number one today on certain keywords will never move and the ones that are trying to get there will never get there IMPOSSIBLE ! In other words unless you have everything right from your first seo day you can't make it... no no that doesn't work or if is the case don't invest a dime in google ...

Then you are talking about manipulating links. Can anyone on this forum tell me that they are small company and that they manage to rank on google naturally on a VERY COMPETITIVE keyword without even asking for links ! if anyones says that they are lying ...

In other words I agree that google is smart and that they want to get the best results for their visitors search but they can't penalize you for working hard...

[tedster]

Sorry, the point of Google is not to give a chance to everyone. The point of Google is to give their users - the people doing the search - the best results they can. That's their mission and the core of their business model.

Google does not care about spreading a fair amount of traffic to every website. Their organic SERPs are not there to provide a monetization method for web businesses. Those are just side effects that SEOs make use of.

This is a REALLY important point. It defines the field on which we are all playing. Google is not a test administered for SEOs to take, over and over again, until they get an A.

So when Google's algo sees a site ranking well based on what they consider a technical trick, they will either wipe out that merely technical advantage - or they might even artificially lower its ranking - and that's a penalty. Google doesn't want people messing around with the quality of their search results.

So the core of your organic strategy needs to include BEING the best - publishing the top quality result for a query and demonstrating that excellence to Google, clearly and unambiguously.

[freejung]

you can't uncook an egg

There is definitely hysteresis in the system. Plenty of evidence of that.

However, note that "reversing an action that caused ranking drop... will not re-estabilish the previous rankings" is _not_ the same as "once your rankings have dropped, no action you take can cause them to improve." It just means you'll have to do a little better, to overcome the hysteresis.

[FranticFish]

I learnt a new word today: thanks, Freejung!

[freejung]

LOL thanks FranticFish, it's an important concept, as tedster and Shaddows pointed out above. A simple example everyone has probably experienced is a low-quality shower knob. If the valve is loose, then the temperature of the water depends not only on the position of the knob, but on whether you got to that position by turning it _up_ or by turning it _down_. Systems with hysteresis are path-dependent. The result depends not only on what's happening _now_, but on what happened in the _past_.

I've seen plenty of indications that Google started using algorithms with hysteresis several years ago. Back in the days of the Google Dance, any changes you made would take effect as soon as they were indexed. You got more links, you got re-ranked all at once, and bang, that was the result of the change, simple.

Now changes take effect gradually and continuously, and it's clear that your rankings now depend on what your rankings were in the past. I've even seen pages continue to rank for a while for terms that have been completely removed from the page. Then after a while they drop, but slowly, like moving through molasses.

"And you know, where it ends, yo it usually depends on where you start." -- Everlast

[rowtc2]

In other words I agree that google is smart and that they want to get the best results for their visitors search but they can't penalize you for working hard...

I think working hard means to add unique and useful content.Not changing on-page elements often to trick Google. Also, every webmaster wants to be aligned with competition or better, they tweak on-page SEO elements continously until ...they are filtered or penalized.They teach to play hard, but to respect Google too.And Google gives them a chance to recovery.

Anchor text excesive repetition in internal linking is a cause of ranking drop, i experienced few years ago and resolving it reading dedicated topics on this forum. The recovery is gradually in time (a few good months) and website is succesful now.