The Future of SEO in a Big Brand, Google-Only World

[tshirtdeal]

Okay, sort of a hypothetical...

I have been doing SEO really since the day it was invented but not with any real success until the last say 7 years...

In that time Google took over, and for me my only money comes from Google... Right now all my money is gone because whatever Google is doing.. All is fair in love and war... I still get my other traffic, it does not make me a dime.. Google took away 1/3 of my traffic total and 100% loss in sales

Anyway, over the years it use to be people surfed different searches, then Google became the standard... The wide array of building profitable traffic got narrowed into one place. It use to be you had to be on the first three pages, surfers got less interested and lazy, realizing anything they want could be found in the top 5 choices... They trusted Google as they should, it is what Google works at...


Then over the last couple of years big business realized, heck we should just put teams together and dominate the top five, we have the resources and money and natural links and everything else to dominate... They say "we don't have to dominate the search" as they do not, because anyone would naturally just type their well branded name into the browser... Yet, they can dominate the top 5 and should because odds are the people up their are just affiliates or ad sellers that are selling for them...

Sure they are making a profit anyway, but less of a profit. For the profits they were giving away they could just invest half of that and dominate...(and do huge branded companies really want nobodies and anybodies marketing their model but them, I WOULD NOT! It was a gold rush and they wanted in, now they do not) Google naturally respects them anyway because people naturally link to them, they are huge, a name they can trust , G hates affiliates...

Now G must realize that really all Adsense is is affiliate marketing... people making a little something for people to get to the same place they knew they needed/wanted to go anyway... In the end, the way people have been trained to the net, top 3 maybe 5 in Google... that is as deep as the net goes on any serious level...

Oh yeah, and with smarter surfer's comes less used keywords, only a few keywords now make money and everyone in the entire world is competing for it... Sure their are keywords no one is competing for... Because they make NO money...

To be honest what once seemed like a limitless world to me for marketing my ideas now seems like the most narrow... It has been reduced to 5 places that can make money, and closing in on three with competition through the roof... Hell I could teach a 5 year old how to build a nice SEO site... SEO use to be a talent, web deign a secret skill... it is SOOO saturated... I think I can stand on the corner of my street and gain more attention, respect and income in the Long term then SEO. I see door-to-door sales as more a lucrative future.

This is not an anti-Google or SEO thread... I just see the noose tightening... I always felt so long as I just put out my content and have a small place to operate I can succeed and felt it would always be available in SEO... I am to the realization that it is not...

So the question becomes, how can you survive in such a limitless environment with SEO... We are down to one search engine, and 3 to 5 spaces...

[tshirtdeal]

Yellow_sun,

Yes I understand what you say but I am talking more on the basis of the laws of supply and demand... The problem lies within that... As I have said, my SEO skills "where" (before this debacle I am in) the best they have ever been...

The problem is that I use to make 3 times the money on the third page a few years ago then now on the first page for even more terms... The problem is the playing field was limited to one, the players (with money and teams) got more and better and the "surfer" got more intelligent/dumb.

Just the basic aspects of the playing field and supply and demand have narrowed things down way to much... SEO needs a change and if Google continues on their path they are opening the way for it.

The Internet and marketing online will evolve in the same ways as any economy. Small business built it, big business took over... The money tightens and things get bad until something new occurs. I think the Internet, Google and SEO gold rush is well over and some hard times are in store before a gold rush resumes.

The most discouraging thing IMO about SEO and online marketing is it turned into a fat saturated place. It is the big brand and all that crap, it presents nothing innovative now like it once did... Google presents a way to type in what you want and look at the top few big places to get it.. It is like a cross comparison... I think the biggest problem I have faced the last two years is that no matter what you provide to a consumer and online experience they will use your information but go back to the big branded name to purchase...

[scottsonline]

Google has the power and resources to realign the SERPS page to be awesome. Will they? That seems to be the huge question right now. This existing layout is dead. I like the Multi column idea, list the top 3-4 organics left to right under paid etc

[tshirtdeal]

Yeah, they sure do, but GM had the chance to reinvent/innovate the automobile and instead decided to sit on their asses until the crap hit the fan and take our tax dollars to do it...

Innovation must always come first IMO, who ever does it I don't care... without it nothing moves/pushes forward and you end up in the situation (economic wise) that our country is in... Just seems to me Google chose the path of less resistance so far, or actually tries to be more innovative then their own good... not sure...

[Jane_Doe]

I think the biggest problem I have faced the last two years is that no matter what you provide to a consumer and online experience they will use your information but go back to the big branded name to purchase...

Google has been quite clear for many years that they want the original merchants to show up in the serps and not 10 affiliate sites selling products all for the same merchant.

If you haven't read it yet I'd recommend the book "Who Moved My Cheese?".

[ken_b]

Yesterday I ran several "business name, loction" searches and got a whole page of directories.

I had to go to the second page to find the actual business website using Google.

Bing/Yahoo had most in #1 - 3 on the first page.

.

Progress for Google, I think not.

[Reno]

The problem is that I use to make 3 times the money on the third page a few years ago then now on the first page

Many of us here ~ perhaps most of us ~ feel that the "New Google" has done serious damage to our online efforts. I know I definitely feel it. But what throws confusion into the mix is the horrible economic condition that so many people find themselves in right now, and the deep anxiety they feel about almost everything. Just listen to the commentary before & after the recent elections in the USA. The average person is running scared, and that's got to be affecting our bottom lines. I have repeatedly criticized Google on this forum but even I must admit that the hits we are taking are almost certainly not all their doing ~ the fact is, we live in difficult times, and to many of the people I speak with, there is an expectation that it will get worse before it gets any better. Unfortunately that kind of attitude puts a damper on everything, including online commerce. People are scared, people are mad ~ they're holding onto their money and are "throwing the rascals out of office" ~ if it doesn't turn around soon, this will seem like the good old days. To be honest, I'm not optimistic about Google, and I'm not optimistic about economic conditions, but like the rest of you, I keep trying for the right combination, to make the magic rise again.

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[tshirtdeal]

"Google has been quite clear for many years that they want the original merchants to show up in the serps and not 10 affiliate sites selling products all for the same merchant."

I do understand that, but here is the problem... there are only a few big branded merchants for everything. You want fast food burgers you go to Mc'd's or Burger King... You want tools you go to Home Depot or Lowes... Everyone knows that, you hardly need Google to tell you that, you just type it into the browser,,,

Regardless your statement is exactly why if I reenter SEO and online marketing again it will be with my own patented product or a unique high demand talented service skill.

[tedster]

There's another piece to this puzzle, too. Online business saturation. The total number of pages online today is hundreds of times more than when Google first started. The playing field was never "level" for the little guy - just "more level" than offline. Now that the rush to the web has occurred for business at all level, we have a different situation than even a few years back.

[HuskyPup]

The playing field was never "level" for the little guy - just "more level" than offline.

Especially so since many in the corporate world just did not "get it"! Even Bill Gates didn't "get it" for several years even though his own company was promoting it.

I remember it well in our companies since I was the only one who did "get it" and I went ahead and pursued what I could see as something that would, quite simply, make my working life so much simpler.

Those companies in the early days that did not "get it" were quite happy for mom and pop stores to sell their stuff for them however reality set in a few years ago when they saw the size some of these e-tailers were attaining together with their buying power and wealth.

Some of these e-tailers are so big now that they have their own brand lines and that could possibly create a huge dilemma for big manufacturers if those e-tailers do not sell their products.

I'm sorry to say that the writing is on the wall on the Internet, just like high street shops, for many who may simply be a middleman, the big boys are coming out to play and play rough they will and let's be sure about this, they'll have the money to dominate AdWords spending and Google will also reward them with the top SERPS spots as well since their sites will be, for Google, the most "relevant".

My advice? Hmmm...it would be easy to say go niche however unless you invent the next big thing you will probably get drowned out of your particular market and, believe this or not and like many other manufacturers are contemplating, we are intending to start going direct to the public with some product lines otherwise we shall be out of business as well!

All the reliable delivery services are in place and they're used to it now. I was at an exhibition in Germany in the early 90s explaining to people how our businesses would change over the ensuing 20 years and they thought I was crazy...they don't now!

[Sgt_Kickaxe]

Like I said, I only lost 1/3 of my traffic but 100% of my sales

tshirtdeal - Do you suspect Google is profiling your visitors and not sending you the most likely to convert?

If so the evil side of monitoring people's browsing habits didn't take long to rear its ugly head. Thanks G.

[frontpage]

Exactly how long until all websites are replaced in the Google SERPS with "Place" type pages wherein a surfer is still ending up at Google property?

It has already started with business results when a visitor uses google maps. The URL to the actual domain is afterthought and easily removed in the future.

[lexipixel]

Exactly how long until all websites are replaced in the Google SERPS with "Place" type pages wherein a surfer is still ending up at Google property?

While all of us have worked to add content and make our sites "sticky", Google has done the same, (albeit in many cases with "our" content).

We fed the beast and it grew stronger.

The future is mobile, not desktop and Google is in a state of flux, moving it's content from a primarily desktop service to a mobile format.

The "places" layout and method of keeping the user on Google with "more info", "photos", reviews, etc -- and ad impressions is the future.

Google is tired of backhauling all the informational searches. There is little [short term] profit in answering "Who was the 23rd president of the USA?" -- Google supplies these answers all day for $0.00 profit (and excessive costs in terms of infrastructure).

IMO -- Google is asking to not be used for anything except money word searches -- just not in so many words.

It's no coincidence that the "places layout" is a vertical rectangle which fits well on most iThing, 3,4, or 5g "devices", "smartphone", PDA's of whatever they call those whatchamathingys that used to be mobile phones.

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as a footnote -- consider the WebmasterWorld thread: "Facebook Moves To Make It More Dominant In Mobiles" - [webmasterworld.com...]

[netmeg]

Things change. They always change. You have to be able to adapt your business model, or you will be winnowed out.

I live in Ann Arbor, home of Domino's Pizza HQ. For years we pretty much had two choices for pizza here - Domino's and Cottage Inn. But Domino's was the real strength brand. Nobody ever would have thought someone could come in and out-pizza Domino's in Ann Arbor. Even Little Caesar's closed all their stores here but one. But then Marco's Pizza came in and made a better pizza at a lower price, and marketed it heavily to the UM students (big pizza crowd, often short on dough - ork ork) and word got around and now we probably have more Marco's stores than Domino's.

So what I take from this is, the littler guy strategically picked his niche, put forward a unique value proposition that would particularly appeal to this niche, and won the day. But he can't rest on his laurels, because there's Papa John's and Hungry Howie's and an allegedly reconstituted Domino's nipping at his heels all the time. He's going to have to keep finding something unique and making sure people know about it.

And that is just not something you can depend on a search engine for.

[HuskyPup]

Absolutely lexipixel, you're on the money.

I find it very interesting that in many industries their major international fairs/exhibitions are actually growing in importance and relevance since many real world manufacturing companies have actually given up on the SERPs chase and are finding alternative, and cheaper, methods of promoting their businesses.

For many, company websites are simply brochure sites again for Joe Public however with many interactive features behind the facade for genuine enquirers.

In 2011 I will personally be exhibiting at probably 5 or 6 international fairs, I haven't done that since the mid 90s!

[explorador]

Reno: Many of us here ~ perhaps most of us ~ feel that the "New Google" has done serious damage to our online efforts. I know I definitely feel it. But what throws confusion into the mix is the horrible economic condition

I agree, I'm there. Forums like these with serious webmasters makes it easier to detect patters and study, then speculate if its a market thing or the so feared "algo changes". I agree with other old threads as G wanting to avoid intermediaries. Back to the topic, yes, a lot of good, serious and genuine sites are loosing money.

Tedster: There's another piece to this puzzle, too. Online business saturation. The total number of pages online today is hundreds of times more than when Google first started.

Also agree on this one. For any "high tech widgets" site 20 new of the same are born each week, some based on copied content.

This is where I get mad about it: "G says, G says (rules)" but we all have seen sites breaking the rules and even so, they outrank other sites. It is difficult to understand the "rules of the game" when those rules won't make sense on reality. Many copy paste sites are making it, some had their Adsense accounts enabled again, some never had their accounts banned, and some legit accounts DID get banned. As mentioned above, G gave the little guy the chance to make it, yes... BUT...

The OP is about SEO, SEO is always on change, but how to tweak, how to optimize when rules seem to apply differently for different sites? this is where the so called "changes" are near the "UNFAIR game".

[londrum]

Google is tired of backhauling all the informational searches. There is little [short term] profit in answering "Who was the 23rd president of the USA?" -- Google supplies these answers all day for $0.00 profit (and excessive costs in terms of infrastructure).

it might seem that way, but people tend to use one search engine, and one search engine only. they get into a habit. that is why people say "google this" and "google that". as soon as people start deserting google for some types of query, then they'll desert them for the rest as well.

i dont think the future is all to do with phones and mobiles. for informational searches, sure (but there's no money in that). but can you see people buying stuff through their phone in the near future? going to a site like amazon, for example, with bazillions of products and searching through what you need, one small screen at a time, will be a pain. i think people getting used to buying stuff through their phones is still a long way off.

okay, so google can display maps on phones, and do flash stuff like geolocate them to the user. but where's the actual money in that? you can cover it in as many ads as you want, but no one is going to follow an ad all the way to purchase on a phone.

[Reno]

The future is mobile

Yes, I have been sensing the growing importance of this too and it bothers me that I know so little about this transistion. I live in a very rural area that does not get cell phone service and thus do not own a "smart phone" (my cell is a tiny Virgin Mobile and is for traveling only). Back in October I tried to get a thread going on the subject but received little response:

Google Search and Mobile - increasingly important? [webmasterworld.com]

I realize that this forum already has plenty categories, but if it's possible for the admins to consider another, I'd like to suggest something like "Going Mobile". Given that mobile viewing of the internet is becoming a major player (whether we like it or not!), it could be very useful & timely information, and may help all of us stay ahead of the curve. Just my 2 cents.

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[tedster]

Things change. They always change. You have to be able to adapt your business model, or you will be winnowed out.

Netmeg has it. If we want free search traffic, then we MUST be ready for change and learn how to surf the wave. That usually means dealing with a few wipe outs. If we want staying power, then we need to grow a good business mind - and only that creates a really top-notch SEO mind.

[karter2]

perhaps what we need is a multi channel web once again, like we have multi TV options, or multi phone company options, multi broad band options,,

[edited by: karter2 at 4:50 pm (utc) on Nov 5, 2010]

[mhansen]

then we MUST be ready for change and learn how to surf the wave

Great analogy Tedster... Its also worth mentioning that the bigger the wave you ride, and the more chances you take... the bigger the wipeout will be! :-)

M

[tedster]

You got that one right! I've tried just SWIMMING at the Banzai Pipeline in Hawaii, and I could not believe the thrashing that top surfers have to deal with.

[HuskyPup]

perhaps what we need is a multi channel web once again

Surely that is what is developing slowly but positively? In a few years time we'll be wondering why we are asking these questions since The Net will still be there for traditional usage yet mobiles and other devices will be capable of making payments for large ticket items, grocery payments right down to micro payments for short bus or train journeys.

I have no doubt this is actually being somewhere, probably Japan, I know such things have been done in the UK.

There will be no death of what we're doing, only a spreading out of the cake just like there are still cinemas, there are tvs, there are videos, vhs, cd, dvd and now downloads, they learn to co-exist or die a natural death simply because people do not want them any more.

Trying to be Mr Super Surfer is a nigh impossibility but at least when someone is in that wave we can most likely see in which direction things are heading!

[Reno]

at least when someone is in that wave we can most likely see in which direction things are heading

Great phrase HP, and a positive take on things ~ the challenge is to not drown, as anyone knows who has been swept up...

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[tshirtdeal]

Sgt...

"Tshirtdeal - Do you suspect Google is profiling your visitors and not sending you the most likely to convert?"

Yes, I do a bit recently feel that about two years ago this could have started to occur for me, or my traffic was being filtered in some way.. Perhaps, but it is very difficult to know because everything that happened to me also is around the time the economy dropped...

[tshirtdeal]

Tedster...

Did you really swim out to Pipe? How big was it? Next time try a heavy swell at Teahupoo :)

[rbarker]

I've been doing SEO since 1996. Halfway between there and here I decided pay-to-play was the way to go. Not knowing whether I'd be in business from one day to the next was just too maddening. I still optimize my sites and maintain linking campaigns, but I don't make rankings the key to success.

I think there are a lot of opportunities available in ecommerce today. Our world is dynamic. Demands for new products appear on a regular basis. Build a portfolio of small niche sites to services markets the big boys aren't interested in. Just don't expect to get rich from any one site.

[fabulousyarn]

i had a little slap of recognition when brinked mention the slapped down jump back up recognition - I think this is part of what makes an entrepreneur succeed - the absolute refusal to be crunched. That said, I've had those depressing low sales days where I just didn't want to deal. The fact is, if your livelihood depends on your business, and your business is on the web, you have not choice - you must get back up to fight another day. And yes, look outside of google. Right now, I am getting a massive amount of business from niche sites that offer targeted advertising. It really does work.

[randle]

Halfway between there and here I decided pay-to-play was the way to go. Not knowing whether I'd be in business from one day to the next was just too maddening. I still optimize my sites and maintain linking campaigns, but I don't make rankings the key to success.

Half way between there and here for us was Florida, it was the best thing that ever happened to our company. Prior to that wake up call we had a genuine aversion to ppc, which is what happens when you repeatedly fail at something.

You need a balanced attack in this business; organic, ppc and affiliated marketing.

[rbarker]

"You need a balanced attack in this business"

Exactly. In addition to ppc and some organic traffic we run banner ads on small but relevant homemade sites. Click on the images G returns for your top keywords. One of them might lead you to a mom and pop site that would love to host your banners for $100 a year.

[Lapizuli]

@HuskyPup, this may sound strange, but I think we're trending toward more middlemen, not fewer. It looks like we're going corporate, and we are for now, but that seems to me to be a blip, in part because the baby boomers as a cohort are still the primary market, being in possession of most of the commercial resources right now. They're operating (understandably) on a trust model that's based in the old economic system, and Google and everyone has to cater to that trust model.

Gen X, the Milennials, and the youngest of young'uns will inherit the Internet-based economy, and they have no stake in maintaining a centralized corporate infrastructure that I can see. It's a different world for them.

Something radical changed with the economy starting to move online, just as it changed when we switched to a car-based economy, and before that railroads, and on and on. In a car-based, TV-based, paper-based economy, everything had to be centralized, so filtering and distributing product was done by centralized authority. Now the younger generations couldn't care less about centralized authority - they're vested in a dispersed authority marked by billions of digital points.

I know this sounds like a crazy idea, but I think we're moving toward an increase in middlemen - the affiliate marketers, reviewers, and work-at-home moms and dads we're seeing now being only the tip of the iceberg.

I believe that corporatism is a hegemony that looks so natural because it's become endemic - but it survives in part because of momentum, but more importantly because we still need a technological infrastructure to get people online as fast as possible, and only large private entities can supply that right now.

But it's the times, they're a 'changin, something's blowin' in the wind...and the new world lurking out there is scary as all heck. But in a way, promising, too.

(And no, these ideas are not tied to any political view in any way, shape or form. Just the assumption that societal upheavals rest on the availability of resources, and we're going through an upheaval right now.)

[edited by: Lapizuli at 8:04 pm (utc) on Nov 5, 2010]