Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
We need to keep this thread focused on the followings:
- Changes on your own site ranking on the serps (lost & gained positions or disappearance of the site).
- Changes you have noticed on the new serps (both google.com and your local google site) especially in regards to the nature of the top 10 or 20 ranking sites.
- Stability of the serps. I.e do you get the same serps when you run the same query within the same day or 2-3 successive days (both google.com and your local google site).
- Effective ethical measures to deal with the above mentioned changes.
Thanks.
Oh, the hijackings are real enough. And if that's not sufficient, then domain poisoning via site scrapers of unknown origin and design will perhaps explain the unusual disappearances from Google in the past year or so.
Don't let official denials, competing "Adsense-algo" theories or so-called 'common sense' disuade you.
The Truth is Out There...
The command:
link: hijacker.com/php?blahblah#473
Returned the exact same links as
link: mydomain.com
That was pretty worrisome.
66.102.7.99
66.102.7.147
216.239.53.99
66.102.7.99
216.239.53.104
66.102.7.104
66.102.7.105
66.102.7.147
Apparently, these were also the servers to get the first updates back in January. I checked them all, and my main site was 100% completely back in the SERPs where they used to be (possibly better).
I never believe anything I hear and only half of what I see.....Education should be the primary here. But myth and speculation runs rampant, and the big EDU is no where to be seen.
I don't do Salem witch hunts and base my findings on the coding and the fact that goes with that coding.
It's not a fair world dude, never has been, and I believe that my original post had everything to do with a Google specific matter, aside from the scrapies and the ones from the other side of the tracks......
The bogie dude is really out there and monsters lurk in places yet unseen.....
The Goog dude is going to do whatever he thinks he wants until the next big deal comes along. Then, like blind sheep, everyone will follow.
My job depends on that happening, and Google has been, like, way kind to my clients, so who am I that I should say any different.
I pay a way less amount of attention to the big Goog @ The Plex than I do when dealing with the scrapies man....a good technician can find these presumed unknowns, and write in ways to thwart their undesired efforts.
I smell a rat LOL
Refresh doesn't work.......I can only just assume it to be a scripting issue.....
Hmmm.....
Tromping through the wilderness, keeping a totally keen and watchful eye for any wildlife, and I come across the awesome post that lists what not's and what do's in handling the totally kewl burpin' update.....
Dude's, this is totally wise to do?
I mean like, this is some really rich stuff, but wouldn't GG get a taste of that and run off to, like his dad maybe and spill the goods, thus in the end, making life even more difficult during the next algo shift?
But being foreboading just isn't any kind of fun. LOL
there are 2 stages to getting your listing in the google index
1> the URL - googlebot finds URL's on the web and lists them. It gets these URL's from pages it crawls, it list the links on the page. Internal and external links, they all get listed unless they have a 'nofollow" attribute. googlebot puts these url's in the index.
2>another googlebot takes these lists of links and crawls them, one by one, adding title and description to them in the index.
If your site goes URL only it just means they have cleared the index and it needs to be re-crawled.
If googlebot loses access to a page/site it will go URL-only, also the reasons listed earlier.
We are in the middle of an update, still a few stages and a few weeks before the update is complete.
So if your site goes URL-only suddenly then make sure nothing has happened - someone edited robots.txt or something similar that prevents crawling, and if everything checks out then it's just the update rolling out, gotta wait for a re-crawl.
lots of people have experienced this - site goes URL-only and then reappears after a crawl.
I updated a page recently and added several new subpages to it. That page went URL-only and then reappeared with entire listing and w/subpages too.
I would assume that google found that the page had been updated entirely so it cleared the Title and description for that page.
Another googlebot comes along, see's it URL-only and crawls it. re-crawls page and adds title and description,
Link-gathering googlebot crawls the page and finds the new URL's, adds them URL-only to the index.
other googlebot finds new URL's in the index and crawls those pages.
There are lots of little googlebots each doing a specific task so not only do you have to wait for googlebot, you have to wait for all the googlebots.
If googleplex is 'cleaning up the index' and clearing a bunch of Titles and descriptions, forcing recrawls on entire sections, this will slow down poor little text-cacheing googlebot down.
The result being that there are lots of URL-only listings in the index and it is going to take longer to getting around to them all. So if you are experiencing this then don't start panicking and making global changes right in the midst of an update, patience is not most webmasters strong points but it pays off when used rightly.
Good morning Folks
I run a search yesterday and could see that top #1 and #2 are nothing but URL ONLY listings, and I was really surprised. The URLs belong to an ebay site though which owns paypal.
To be sure I asked a fellow member to check it for me and confirm that he see the same and he did (thanks). He could even see it on all the different DCs he checked AND through the Google search bar.
Have any of you noticed URL ONLY listings, say on top 10 of the serps when you run your queries?
Thanks
[edited by: reseller at 5:57 am (utc) on June 20, 2005]
The business site i run took a small hit on a few competitve keywords...i only lost 2% of sales.
I learned a LONG time ago after the slow and painfull collapse of old search engines like metacrawler which was the "google" of the time that you cannot rely on a search engine for sales alone, to do so will eventually mean the death of your business since you rely on one single major input for income.
Imagine maybe 2 or 3 years down the line, Bill Gates injects a few hundred million into MSN Search and MSN overtakes Google...where's your income now? It's only a matter of time. Google on the share index is grossly overpriced, when that share bubble busts google will suffer, we have all seen it before with new tech companies, the only thing that keeps people going back to google is the branding and the free advertising they get from the general media.
Surviving the bourbon update? It must come down to diversifying. No one can honestly expect the design and development of webpages to remain as it was back in the latter mind 90's when people used transparent spacer gif's and tables all over the place. XML, XHTML, HTML 4.01, ASP, CSS and full database driven solutions are now making the degisn stages of webpages nothing like the old HTML 2.x days of webdesign. Having a website for a small company comes under the same thing. Running a site who's base code is over 4 years old is like expecting an 80486 IBM PC II to run Doom III on high graphics, it wont work.
The other site i run which is in my profile? It's now rapidly climbing in google, yahoo and MSN, no sign of a sandbox AT ALL.
The business site i run does not rely on a single main port of income. If you run a business on the web you need to do a lot of leg walking. Dont use the net itself to find your competition, use yellow pages to seek out and contact businesses within a 100mile radius and make contact with them, if they have a site then ask to change links personally on the phone, even better, have the personal touch, write to them using pen and paper or visit them, if they are having problems with the business itself then offer help. Use the local and regional media to do some old fashoined real time media advertising in radio and television. Contact local shop busnisses with propositions, if you have a local PC stor and you run a site which deals with things to do with computers then ask if you can buy advertising space in there price lists. If you run a general media outloet like selling books and the likes then contact your local bookstore and larger stores and ask the same thing. List yourself in the local and national hardcopy directories like Yellow Pages, visit newsgroups on the net with regards to your business subject and watch what the customer base is thinking. Sponsor local events and prize giveaways.
Think the above wont work for a "mom and pop" business?
Someone i know who lives in the next town makes hand crafted Teddy Bears...yup, stuffed quality toys. You wouldnt think it was a heavilly competitve business on the net, but boy was i wrong. So, i built her a simple 2 column site, and then I gave her the 10 stage plan to do leg work contacting local and regional busniesses.
She closed her website down 4 months ago as she is now making enough to not warant the increased expenditure on server costs. National trade papers give her constant free advertising cause she sponsored them by giving away a few hand crafted toys, local event give her free advertising in fares and parades. That plan didnt just work with that particular business, it helped with a local PC store which opened up in one of the most competitive markets around, PC parts.
How would this relate to a "fun" or "hobby" site like the one in my profile?
That site in my profile gets 10,000 to 20,000 hits per day for a market (gaming) which is now on the bottom end of a steep decline for its unique sector. We changed servers, google dropped us, google brought us back, but the hits remained. Why? Good ties, thats why, run your hobby site like you would run a business. That site has representatives from Viacom/Paramount visiting it, and we even advertised for Warner Bros as well.
Never rely on one single source of income or visitors for a website. Multi sourcing can be done, it may take a few weeks of hard work but the results mean that if google dropped ya again then so what?
Thats how to survive the next bourbon style update, and trust me, i'm laying odds on there will be more updates like bourbon which see's a radical shift in the way the algo works, this is NOT the days of html 2.x anymore people. Google itself is having to deal with newer sites coded in several different styles, its also dealing with sites which probably have not been updated for months, and scraper sites and sites which steal your content. Myabe Competitors are running on new cleaner code and new languages, and, if you are one of the unlucky ones who have been dropped for no apparent reason and you do run a business then multisource...ANY company can multi source and i bet even Brett himself done it when this place first started.
Thanks. Very interesting post!
>The other site i run which is in my profile? It's now rapidly climbing in google, yahoo and MSN, no sign of a sandbox AT ALL.<
Would you be kind to elaborate more on that?
Thanks.
>Would you be kind to elaborate more on that?<
I will.
I've been around these boards over 4 years now, my main site will turn 5 this summer. I say around because thats all I've really ever done-lurk.
Right after Florida I acquired my 2 biggest clients ever. Still have them. One of them told me that, though they had heard of me, made a decision as a company to give me their business after reviewing the Florida results. Over 25 Top Ten and Top 20 kw's...Most in the 5-15 dollar PPC range. I did not lose one position. During Florida I didn't move up, down, or sideways. There are a few here who know this to be fact, not fantasy.
I've launched 8 sites since then; not one has been boxed. Not for a day, a week, or a month...
Now comes Bourbon and friend and foe alike tell me that it's going to hit the fan. And I almost....almost, started buying into the BS. Well, if it is indeed over my Song Remains the Same.
Not up, Not down, Not sideways.
I'm a realist too, however. G, Y and M will do what they want, when they want, and I refuse to plan my vactions or retirement based on the whims of the G-Gods.
One question that's always been spinning around my head though...How could anyone with real, live clients ever spend more than an hour or so a week on a message board?
Good rankings to all of you. Have a great night. I'll be getting back to work now...
Welcome to real life "Classroom" and thanks for your contribution ;-)
>One question that's always been spinning around my head though...How could anyone with real, live clients ever spend more than an hour or so a week on a message board?<
If you have spent more than an hour a week, then you would have read the posts of real people telling the real sad stories of real business which have been hit suddenly and with no warnings. Those innocent fellow members lost revenues and several years of hard work.
They were not as fortunate as you are. Their sites didn't "Not up, Not down, Not sideways" but dropped, dumped or just vanished on the serps.
They are spending more than "an hour or so a week" on these great forums not because they don't have something better to do. But because there is nothing better to do in time of crisis than to seek solutions and learn and share on these great forums.
And trust me. The day you have more time to go back and read several post of the past several months. You shall find posts similar to yours. From fellow members who thought that their own sites were bulletproof. Then they came again here to tell sad stories.
Once again thanks for your contribution to the thread.
Has been happening for a long time.
Because they aren't idiots? Some people know that no matter how much they know that human interaction can cause them to learn more.
Better question is why would anyone ever lurk on a message board. Voyeurism isn't as good as the real thing.
"How could anyone with real, live clients ever spend more than an hour or so a week on a message board?"Because they aren't idiots? Some people know that no matter how much they know that human interaction can cause them to learn more.
Hmmm.... I wonder too.
Maybe because some people don't read the rules and post nasty messages about other members?
Justin
Anyone know why the body text is still not indexed?
even though I continue to rise in the rankings
Thanks
g1smdI have watched one search phrase climb from 8 million results in the Summer of 2003 to 18 million results in late 2004. Just a few days before Google announced that their index had increased to 8 billion pages the search phrase jumped to 40 million results. However what has happened after that is even more interesting. A month or so later it jumped to 60 million, then 80 million, and then carried on climbing to 140 million, where it has stayed for 3 months or so.
A few days ago it suddenly dropped back to 37 million, just as it was last Autumn.
This is the wierd bit. For a few days it reported 37 million if you did a normal search, but then reported 140 million if you did a search with &num=100&filter=0 on the end of the Google search URL.
Pretty much exactly what I'm seeing.
Although as far as I can tell, not all searches have reduced in volume. Very odd and this has definitely stuck.
Please don't close this thread. Let it be the mother of all webthreads.
Reid: Yes there are a whole armada of GoogleBOTS and they come from different countries to my site.
GoogleBOT (noindex,noarchieve)
Chance: If enough monkeys sit and write on a typewriter, by chance they will produce the collected writings of Shakespeare or better. :-) :-)
GoogleBOT (index,archieve)
No, I know, a lot of people have lost money. How to handle that is the big question.
GoogleBOT (noindex,noarchieve)
KGB
GoogleBOT (index,archieve)
Don't worry over life, you will not survive, even if I have heard people say: "If I die" and not "When I die".
Precise enough?
[edited by: kgun at 10:18 am (utc) on June 20, 2005]
I didn't post to brag. The fact is that in my career as a web-developer and SEO, my EXPERIENCE-not my theories, ideas nor opnions, have taught me that in this profession nothing, absolutely nothing stays the same. Is it sad that some have had it pretty rough? Of course it is. But anyone that counted on a permanent full-time living from an industry where timing and luck have equal odds to hard work and perserverance is wearing a blindfold.
I live and work in reality. The very first thing I tell a prospective client is that anything that depends on the current mood of a spider, a robot or a mathematical equation cannot, nor will not, ever be consistent. My times coming. No doubt about it. And thats why, like the poster a few up, I do the same thiings for my business that I urge my clients to do. If I wake up tomorrow and G's algo didn't like me anymore...I'm still going on vacation this summer.
There will always be someone smarter, have more money, or just be luckier than me. Knowing that, and knowing that I'm not smarter than G, Y or M, keeps me in a place where I'm not dependent on Serge's dream to keep mine alive.
With the search engines alone there simply too many variables. Add some print, PR, education and coaching, networking, traditional advertising and relationship building and now I have a business. A business that will endure when Y starts pushing our clients off the middle/white with their new PPI. Are you ready? Have you even told your clients that depend on Y that they better be prepared for a pretty big hit and help them plan for it?
JMO, but SEO as a stand-alone, one dimensional profession, is dead. And if we don't stop complaining about things which we have absolutely no control over and start living in solutions our careers will be as well.
Wishing you nothing but good rankings...
Excellent. I use to say, when you begin to understand the TECH, it changes or reorganizes. We are on a creeping stadium. In 200 years, there may be a large "partial universal net" where men are living on the moon or on Mars, on lare spacestations.
You have laptops with terabytes of memory. But that is not the case today.
KBleivik
It is to early to know the future.
Quote:
“Imagine maybe 2 or 3 years down the line, Bill Gates injects a few hundred million into MSN Search and MSN overtakes Google...where's your income now? It's only a matter of time. Google on the share index is grossly overpriced, when that share bubble busts google will suffer, we have all seen it before with new tech companies, the only thing that keeps people going back to google is the branding and the free advertising they get from the general media”.
Bill Gates injects a few hundred million. I think the figure is billions, even if the Hotmail servers and other servers is infrastructure in place. Yes he is TODAY, perhaps the real competitor to Google as Pepsi to Coca.
I repeat this
Google Eating Fiber for Optimal Growth.
Under this heading, Jim Hedger, writes:
"Becoming an ISP would also make Google a global telecommunications provider. With the expected rise in VOIP applications, owning bandwidth is going to be tremendously important, much like ownership of telephone or cable lines is today.
What do you get when you take the world's largest information resource and add the biggest amount of unused but very real bandwidth-space in existence? I don't really know myself but I can't wait to find out. Whatever emerges, it will be built on a uniquely powerful foundation".
It is not only about computer networks, it is also about superfast connections. But Bill Gates have the money to buy some Telecommunication companies if he wants to. That does not mean that he succeed.
Quote:
“Think the above wont work for a "mom and pop" business?
Someone i know who lives in the next town makes hand crafted Teddy Bears...yup, stuffed quality toys. You wouldnt think it was a heavilly competitve business on the net, but boy was i wrong. So, i built her a simple 2 column site, and then I gave her the 10 stage plan to do leg work contacting local and regional busniesses.
She closed her website down 4 months ago as she is now making enough to not warant the increased expenditure on server costs. National trade papers give her constant free advertising cause she sponsored them by giving away a few hand crafted toys, local event give her free advertising in fares and parades. That plan didnt just work with that particular business, it helped with a local PC store which opened up in one of the most competitive markets around, PC parts”.
What happens when an irresistible force meets an irresistible wall? Free global competition for digital goods and services with very different factor prices (wages). Search for the following:
“The equalization of factor prices between free trade areas”.
Then this:
“A theory for demand of products distinguished by place of production”.
It may be profitable to produce black hats in Norway and grey in Sweeden.
Was this about the Burbon update?
KBleivik
Look for free (increasing) cash flow and not too high P/E when you invest. Look at managemanet and their business. But I would not invest in Google or Microsoft. I do not understand their business.
Anyone know why the body text is still not indexed?
even though I continue to rise in the rankings
Thanks
I noticed that yesterday as well. I don't know how long it's been going on for me though. I'm back in the G SERP's, but mostly for title text and description text! I'm not showing NEARLY as well for my body text, and in some cases WAAAAAY back in the index! So, yet another problem.
(I like vinyl better, but I guess that's because I'm old. Hee hee). :)
