Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
We need to keep this thread focused on the followings:
- Changes on your own site ranking on the serps (lost & gained positions or disappearance of the site).
- Changes you have noticed on the new serps (both google.com and your local google site) especially in regards to the nature of the top 10 or 20 ranking sites.
- Stability of the serps. I.e do you get the same serps when you run the same query within the same day or 2-3 successive days (both google.com and your local google site).
- Effective ethical measures to deal with the above mentioned changes.
Thanks.
Sometimes they are actually 302s or 200s depending on how the server is setup.
This is why you never use your homepage as an error page.
All the profit motive? You have read my posts?
Quote:
"You obviously have never heard the term "moral hazard." Go check, and while you're at it, kindly edit your last post to correct my name".
Yes, I know the term "moral hazard". I also know the related word of "adverse selection". You have selected your words with thought?
Yes it is also about assymmetric information, and that information will always be assymmetric. You will never get Coca Cola's secret formula and you will never get Google's secret formula.
So you have a better ranking than Google? Other search engines that rank your page higher than Google is better searchengines (for your business)?
"We need to remember, too, that different people have different definitions of what constitutes a "quality search result."
Exactly.
KBleivik
"Kgun, I don't know if you are actually using this tag of noindex,noarchieve anywhere, but if you are it's misspelled. Should be archive. ;)"
Is this the only spelling mistake you find? :-) :-) :-)
KBleivik
I am sorry to have to put it this way but not wanting to bust your butt is just an cowards excuse. If you want to be lazy and not do a bit of work in the meantime to make up for what is lost in google that is your loss. While you are being lazy, someone else who isn't affraid of a little work will step in and capture what COULD have been yours. Maybe you just don't care.
"Just about the only people who truly *could not* do anything to get traffic without Google are pure information sites (I mean really not selling ANYTHING at all, and also not on a topic of strong interest to schools and libraries). Well, and the scrapers and other content spammers, of course, but I know from your previous posts that this doesn't apply to you. If you have a real product or service, then you have something to market, and you can market it with or without Google".
Can you define what a “scraper” is? Is it the same for a Christian as for an Hindu, a Buddist, an ateist or an agnostic?
What is a content spammer? Is it one copying? What is copying? Did Picasso copy when he said: “If I see a motive, a steal it and make it unreckognizeable?” What about news? What about legal and sometimes necessary citation? Mathematicians, and Information Scientisits are not always so good to express themselves. Precise mathematics, bad language. Spam?
KBleivik
"I also don't believe in a marketing strategy "independent of Google". That is plain stupid if you think about it. Diversification, when done properly, is inclusive not exclusive! The whole point of diversification is to manage risk. No matter where you throw your dime! Rather than developing a strategy that is independent of google develop one that is inclusive of google. Proper diversification will eliminate the risk involved if this market should cease to exist. Create a strategy with each element working in harmony with each other and supporting each other".
Yes and if you take out a stable element and replaces it with a more volatile element, you can stabilize the overall portfoilio. That is mathematics, correlation (linear) analysis.
KBleivik
"He said that the only thing that did not lie was mathematics, simply because it could not".
Well, there's no need to get philosophical. The question was "Is there any kind of website that will truly wither and die if Google gives it bad ratings, even if the webmaster actually works hard to diversify?" And the obvious answer is "yes, scrapers and content spam." If they are offering no original content--nothing but re-served SERP pages copied from Google, content cut and pasted from other sites, etc--then they truly don't have any other way to get advertising. Search engines are stupid enough to link to sites without content, but other webmasters usually are not. And it would be a real waste of money to invest money in traditional advertising for a site that has nothing on it, because there won't be any repeat customers, because those sites aren't really selling anything nor have any important information people will want to return for.
So, those make-a-quick-buck sites are totally dependent on the whims of Google and other search engines. It's a truly practical distinction; no philosophy involved.
Meanwhile a real e-business, that is selling real widgets or offering real widgetizing services or providing original valuable information about widgets, is different by an order of magnitude. And I think all the people suggesting that webmasters of sites like that ought to be careful to diversify their advertising processes are very wise indeed.
It was because google decided to index those pages that were there since months back and the number of pages that I have sudden went up 20 times the amount I have for the past years.
So most probably page rank still matters when it comes to scoring the page's ranking.
The PR passed to the new pages cause a drop in PR of the rest of the pages?
Hi Folks!
Updating.. including a point about OUTLET SITES strategy.
- Do a 301 redirect regarding yoursite.com vs. www.yoursite.com (canonical url problem)
- Removing 302 redirects
Please do not remove your own site using Google's url removal tool. All it will really do is remove your own site for 180 days.
And don´t think that allinurl:yourdomain.com returning a result like someotherdomain.com/redirect?url=www.yourdomain.com could be a hijacking. That's a common misperception. All that "allinurl:yourdomain.com" does is look for documents with "yourdomain com" anywhere in the url that we saw. It's not a hijacking if you see results from other sites with allinurl. The only time you need to worry is if you do site:yourdomain.com and then you see results from someotherdomain.com.
- Removing duplicates
- Subtle page changes and monitor SERP changes
- Create and submit a Google Sitemap (You want Google to crawl more of your web pages)
[google.com...]
- Optimize your site for other search engines (like Yahoo, MSN ..)
Keep working to increase non Google sources of visitors.
- Transfer your affected site to a spare/emergency site
An emergency site is an additional site with 1-2 pages of real content related to your affected site. You create the emergency site in good time, submit it to the majors (also maybe local directories) and leave it to age for at least 6 months before moving the content of your affected site to it.[/b]
- Outlet Sites Strategy
In short its about creating several sites each contains part of your contents (instead of having the whole contents on one site). Outlet sites have their own "value added" contents. The benefit of Outlet Sites is making your business less vulnerable to be hit by Google´s updates.
Resources:
Google Update Bourbon Part 4
[webmasterworld.com...]
Dropped from Google - a checklist to find out why.
[webmasterworld.com...]
Further Google 302 Redirect Problems
[webmasterworld.com...]
301 for non-www. to www. not working, plus custom error stops working
[webmasterworld.com...]
Google Sitemaps
[webmasterworld.com...]
Successful Site in 12 Months with Google Alone (Brett Tabke)
[webmasterworld.com...]
Sandbox Question and SEO for Google
[webmasterworld.com...]
GoogleGuy's posts (Some posts and advice on Bourbon and other topics)
[webmasterworld.com...]
eval.google.com - Google's Secret Evaluation Lab..
[webmasterworld.com...]
Your comments and suggestions shall be highly appreciated.
Thanks!
You said your site wasn't sandboxed. It obviously is, and you obviously know it.
(And the Title tag is not the meta keyword tag.)
>..Was it a DNS misconfiguration problem? My primary DNS server crashing and burning? A 301 redirect problem? A site hijacking? (The site hijacker went off the Net about the same time as my SERPs plunge.) Something else? A bunch of things just seemed to happen around the same time, and I didn't think it had anything particular to do with "Bourbon". <
Fair enough. So you think your problem isn´t related to Bourbon.
[edited by: ciml at 3:41 pm (utc) on June 22, 2005]
I lost 50% of my total traffic only on June 16 or something, well into the update. And it is still at the same level, even though all my pages seem to be indexed. Lost keyowrd positions though. Can I expect this to be permanent this late?
Ooh, ooh, that's what we've been doing for almost 7 years, by accident. Doesn't help a whole lot. The short story is, our old ISP charged 5 times as much to double the bandwidth on one domain, so as our traffic increased we just started another new account with a new domain (they would not accept subdomains on separate accounts) for the same low hosting price and sometimes moved the largest/most popular pages to it. Kindof a poor man's load balancing.
At least 2 out of about 5 got hit in Bourbon (so far), because each depends upon the others for PR. If one went down in bourbon, apparently it's page rank seems to be ignored and is no longer passed on. It simply no longer shows up in the backlinks. The first went down May 23. You're right, it was helpful for a while to have the others still driving a % of the traffic. But then the second went down around June 17.
>At least 2 out of about 5 got hit in Bourbon (so far), because each depends upon the others for PR.<
Have those sites been crosslinked or connected?
Because OUTLET SITES are seperate individual sites not crossed linked to each other and shouldn´t look like a network. Maybe I should have mentioned that ;-)
Does anyone know how long sites stay penalised/sandboxed? I have just had a friend’s website come back after 8 months (god knows why it was not ranking). For my other site I can’t afford to wait that long! I wished I had a network of sites but the PR loss would be greater!
Look at this
“Google, The French, and World Domination; Culture War Begins”
post under the heading
“Search Engine Insider Reports”
at the WebProWorld forum. A discussion so intence that it is difficult to believe. The world is perhaps definitely not getting a better place.
“Search engines are stupid enough to link to sites without content.”
A search engine and I know the difference between {} and {0}. I also at once see the difference between a cloud, a bird and an aeroplane. I also at once recognizes Alan Greenspan if he comes walking down Wall Street. I recognize him among millions of people. Do you think that todays robots does?
Europeforvisitors said it so excellent at this forum may 30, 2005.
"For the most part, human-edited directories like DMOZ and spidered search engines like Google serve entirely different purposes: Directories index sites, and search engines index pages. It's like the difference between a library's directory of the magazines in its collection and The Magazine Index or the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature.
If you're looking for a site about Elbonian travel, you might use a directory. But if you're looking for an article about mud kayaking in Elbonia, you need a search engine like Google. That's why human-edited directories can't be a substitute for spidered search".
I hope that search engines continues to be stupid. In reality, the only thing a computer can, is add and compare. Do not ask why log(x) is adding on a computer. I see that you work for dmoz. Continue with your linking for that great directory. But do not try to mix your role and Googles, even if you feed GoogleBOT and other searchengines.
KBleivik
The only thing that did not lie was mathematics, simply because it could not.
You did not find these three links in this post?
[google.com...]
[loriswebs.com...]
[robotstxt.org...]
You should start there. They MAY help you. If you do not find what you need there, you should perhaps go to the Apache forum. That is not my speciality.
KBleivik
Life is too short to program in assembler.
1. Guys working on the update had too much bourbon.
2. webmasters suffering the concequences could use a few shots of bourbon.
My point is simple and practical: If somebody has a made-for-Adsense site with no original content in it, then yes, their traffic is going to be completely dependent on Google (and to a lesser extent Yahoo and MSN). Why? Because traditional advertising will not draw visitors to a site that has no information, no product, and no services. Paying to run an ad for a scraper site would be flushing money down the toilet.
If a website offers something real, then you can get traffic from sources other than search engine. If it doesn't, then you can't. That's a completely functional, relevant, pragmatic definition.
I wonder what Google would have called it, if it were up to them... any comedians want to volunteer?
Can somebody please give me a brief description of sandboxing so I can understand if that is why Google has turned nasty on me. Thanks.
“My point is simple and practical: If somebody has a made-for-Adsense site with no original content in it, then yes, their traffic is going to be completely dependent on Google (and to a lesser extent Yahoo and MSN). Why? Because traditional advertising will not draw visitors to a site that has no information, no product, and no services. Paying to run an ad for a scraper site would be flushing money down the toilet”.
Says law says that “Supply creates its own demand.”
I would not use a pink tie, but somebody else would love it. I shall not say that I will not use a pink tie in 10 years.
The only site I see with no content is this site: { }
Have you heard about Malevitsch white square? It is a white surface with his signature in the lower right corner.
1. What do you think people meant of that painting the first time they saw it?
2. How much do you think it is worth today?
Do you think dmoz would link to that painting if it was made for the first time today? Perhaps Google would.
KBleivik
Do not confuse me with facts.
My proposal:
Do not confuse me with facts.
KBleivik
"After reading this thread, I am more confused, but on a higher level."
<humor>Please accept my most profound apologies. Next time I'll resort to fiction instead of facts, and will make sure that it is within the scope of your understanding.</humor>
My site is coming back today in the serps, specifically:
I am in top 3 for several single word searchs. This is much different than 2 months ago where I would never be in top three for a single word. I would need to have an noun or adjective or two do be that high.
It used to be that the more words used in the query the more likely it was that my pages would come up tops. It is now the exact opposite - the less words the more likely I'm on top.
Something has definitely changed.
For one and some two word searchs, if I have the density exactly were G wants it then I'm #1. And, it doesn't appear to matter if there is little content on the page or not.
Clint 3:35 pm on June 21, 2005"Kgun, I don't know if you are actually using this tag of 'noindex,noarchieve' anywhere, but if you are it's misspelled. Should be 'archive'. "
Is this the only spelling mistake you find?
:-) :-) :-)KBleivik
HA! LOL. Well no, but that one would be important if you were actually using it for a tag. ;)
