Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
Now wouldn't it be in your best interest to sandbox your competition? You see a new site throwing up some PPC ads in your space, you immediately give them a few run-of-site links from some other sites you run and watch them get sandboxed.
Maybe unethical, but seemingly a solid approach for anyone in a competitive industry.
If they try and be agressive to rank, they will be sandboxed.
If they are not, they won't rank.
Eitherway you are safe.
It's an approach that is just as likely to help the competitor as it is to harm it, in my opinion.
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Apparently he doesn't think it will hurt Westhost or BestBBS. Or is Brett simply lazy? My money is on the former suggestion.
Do you think Google is penalizing sites with ROS links?
In my opinion they are. If you think about it, there are very few legitimate reasons to have a run of site link with competitive anchor text. However, I don't feel they are penalizing run of sites that don't have competitive keywords in it. My suggestion for web designers who want to advertise their business, use your URL or company name.
My evidence are the sites I run on my own. I dropped a couple ROS links I had, and actually moved up the following month on a couple sites. I've had sites do very well and not be sandboxed for months, only to have them get thrown in after I put a ROS link somewhere.
I think ROS links is the easiest way for Google to determine if your site is trying to game the system.
I have a lot of respect for Brett, he's been doing WebmasterWorld since 1997. Did you ever notice the links at the bottom of each and every page on this site?
Apparently he doesn't think it will hurt Westhost or BestBBS. Or is Brett simply lazy? My money is on the former suggestion.
Those aren't competitive terms. If he was naming the link "web hosting", it probably wouldn't do any good. I truly believe Google categorizes links by commercial or non-commercial.
"Now wouldn't it be in your best interest to sandbox your competition? You see a new site throwing up some PPC ads in your space, you immediately give them a few run-of-site links from some other sites you run and watch them get sandboxed."
You can't sandbox a site running PPC ads....this is a separate issue from the natural listings...(where sites can be sandboxed)...
Best approach...is to continue to strengthen your position by continually creating new content...and seeking out REAL link opportunities...that FIRST serve your visitors then get quantified by the algo (eventually)...
Well, if the sitewide links were really 302 redirects... you'd see some action, but not the kind of action that I'd want.
ROS is a derivative of ROP which means Run of Press, which (in print) means one ad, but the publisher gets to determine where it goes (i.e. in the leftover space). That's why ROP ads are the cheapest.
Since space online is not limited, I guess they're using the term to mean sitewide link cause it sounds cool and God forbid an i-term with out a hip abbreviation. I still think it's a bit misapplied, but oh well...
[edited by: Rollo at 10:34 pm (utc) on April 15, 2005]
You can't sandbox a site running PPC ads....this is a separate issue from the natural listings...(where sites can be sandboxed)...
My mention of PPC was simply meant as seeing that a new competitor has entered the space.
I've seen sites break the sandbox, and almost all have the same things in common. Few strong, authority links, and that's it. No run of site links, no 5,000 backlinks from a link network. From the sites that are sandboxed, you typically see someone who has brought in a lot of links fast.
People who had been previously benefiting from ROS inbounds would obviously see a drop in their rank ( less benefit) and call it a penalty, personally I've not seen a site thats acquired ROS links get penalised as a result.
From the sites that are sandboxed, you typically see someone who has brought in a lot of links fast.
And if I were the site owner you were trying to sandbox, I would report your efforts to have me sandboxed in a heartbeat.
What makes you think you can hurt my site? Give me a break! Think before you speak. This is such an obvious tactic that the Google alarms would go off instantly. As a website owner, (in a dog eat dog market) so would mine!
I would report you the minute I saw this sort of garbage taking place. The first one or two referrals would be enough for me to investigate and there are bound to be referrals. You can't control what your visitors do!
Now, back to my link farm posting..what was your url again Bears? ;-)
These sorts of links occur naturally most of the time, regardless of how "competitive" the site being linked to is named. I just can't believe how people tie themselves up in knots to conjur up and attribute all sorts illogical behavior to search engines.
Yahoo Sports and Google News, to name two, have many run of the site links, with very competitive keywords in the 99.9% exact same anchor text, and there is nothing wrong with this, and more to the point it is quite an illogical leap to suggest that such linking is "illegitimate".
Liane, you said you would report it immediately. Just curious, where and how do you report it? I once tried to report the offending site to Google (it was not ROS links, but anyway, smth close), and I couldn't figure out how and where. I didn't find any form for that purpose and all my emails to them bounced back with suggestions to use their forms. How do you go about reporting this?
Yup, that would be right, hardly any traffic from google then?
And if I were the site owner you were trying to sandbox, I would report your efforts to have me sandboxed in a heartbeat.What makes you think you can hurt my site? Give me a break! Think before you speak. This is such an obvious tactic that the Google alarms would go off instantly. As a website owner, (in a dog eat dog market) so would mine!
I'm sure your requests to Google for them to un-sandbox your site will go through. Especially since they won't admit there is a sandbox, nor do they typically care anymore about webmasters complaints. Not to mention, there is no law against linking to a site.
I think you took my post too serious, as I was merely playing the devil's advocate, and pointing out a potential serious situation. What could SEO turn into if it is found that inbound links can hurt your site?
Of course there will be debate as to whether inbound links can hurt a site. My belief, after seeing the factors that have triggered the sandbox and other penalties, reading through the Google patent, and analyzing posts/comments made by some of the leaders in the industry, is that inbound links can hurt you. That one of the triggers of sandboxing a site is the unnatural acquisition of links.
I don't believe in the technique, nor would I have the time or care to do so. But someone will, and we'll be seeing "Someone gave me 15,000 backlinks" posts as much as we see the "Someone is hijacking my rankings" someday. We've seen how well Google has handled those problems.
I think only if you recipricate. You cannot avoid being listed by others, especially if you quickly get into 'back fill' for directory affiliate sites.
establishing a new site is expensive enough.
why shall you block your competitor instead of improving your site and services for your visitors' advantage?
it would be more interesting what happens to an established site if you start promotion for completely different keywords.
have anyone tried that?
buying an old domain with some little IBLs and setting a new business on it promoting it for sth new would be a way out. not all old domains are so expensive, are they?
cheers
This is backwards, as unnatural acquisition of links is the most common way to get around the sandbox. On the other hand, sites that acquire links naturally are the exact target of the sandbox.
