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Now wouldn't it be in your best interest to sandbox your competition? You see a new site throwing up some PPC ads in your space, you immediately give them a few run-of-site links from some other sites you run and watch them get sandboxed.
Maybe unethical, but seemingly a solid approach for anyone in a competitive industry.
>none of us were penalized and the traffic we send to each other is sometimes almost the same as the one from Google itself.
Yup, that would be right, hardly any traffic from google then?
That was an exaggeration of course, but still.... All depends on a site's topic. Do you know how much traffic can sometimes bring one popular celebrity site or smth like imdb.com to another celebrity site? Especially nowadays, when Google serps look more like a spam and porn farm on most celebs names.
Visitors need results, content, pictures, info. They don't care who sits in which sandbox being penalized for what. If they don't find what they are searching for in Google or get tired of spam (i.e. celeb's name only in page's title, description and in affiliate links), they will search somewhere else. Which they do all the time! That's why related ROS links are very important in some markets, and I don't see why would Google penalize for that, a lot of people STILL build their sites with not only His Majesty Google in mind.
Or arts and crafts for example, I also have a craft site, and nobody penalizes one craft site for linking directly to another craft site from the homepage. You may say: who cares about crafts?! But we are talking about Google's approach here, and it should be the same for every topic: software, crafts, travel, celebrities...
<Make more quality content pages, get more links (include ones with high PR)and stay a way from banned unlisted, or sites with the grey or white bar on them, until you get established. Established = more pages, more back links(with the right anchor text)"and a bigger green bar.">
I have been doing some thinking lately about Google´s PR and the famous bar.
I feel that Google either is going to drop the PR in the shape we know now or establishing a new evaluation system instead.
Reason is that the fathers of the current PR bar haven't taking in account or dreamed that the PR is going to be a sell/buy/exchange tools to achieve better positions on the serps which is the case now.
Its maybe therefore Google isn't updating the PR values anymore.
Sorry this is BS .. there is a sandbox, and the term coined 'sandbox' is inaccurate it but does exist and new sites do get supressed on the SERPS (not totally excluded I might add). Maybe some non-commercial sites may bypass this as the terms they target are NOT so called money terms, but in my experience it exists, whether you slowly acquire inbound links, don't acquire links at all or acquire them reasonably fast and vary the anchor text etc etc.....
I'd like to know how many people developing NEW commercial sites on a regular basis are actually saying that the sandbox doesn't exist!
But, it is not about Google, your SEO has changed.
the filter/sand box has been there.
What I do for my PR 5 and 6 sites with good back links, I do not do for my new ones, excluding the on page factors(basic seo)
You want to get your client to the top as fast as possible, in that effort, one tends to throw too much of the same anchor text links, from the same source at the title of the new site. (note: this may now include not only the title, it may iclude the H1,H2 and Alt tags due to spammy blogs and ROS sites.
This is not a factor if one has a PR 5 or above
And I have noticed it on some of my high PR 4 Sites, but, they have very strong high # of back links.
So, I am guessing once a site has a certain PR or # of backs, it is not a factor. It is not a time period, it is the new SEO method, which includes, getting the most of the same anchor text links to that site, as fast as possible.
"Oops the spammy flag just dropped"
A new site would not have enough PR or backlinks(containing different but same the anchor text)for that not to be considered spam.
Fool the spammy Flag, or it will fool you.
Is an algo machine smart enough to know what different, but the same is? I think not, or those 2 guys from stanford would not keep tweaking it.
PS, I am not up on the latest Google Seo terms, such as "sandbox"
From this point forward, can we call it the "spammy flag"
So far, sandbox discussions seem to involve commercial sites.
How about hobby, information or general interest sites?
Suppose I put up a non-commercial site about growing lemon trees at home?
Would that get 'sandboxed' too, or is it likelier to get indexed
as soon as incoming links are discovered, assuming it becomes popular?
By non-commercial, I mean no online sales or products or services,
and no adsense or similar ads. -Larry
So wouldn't giving your competitors ROS links for their money keyword cause the "Oops the spammy flag just dropped" in your opinion?No, I have found my links and clients links on spamming sites and was never affected by it and wouldn't lose sleep over it.
As much as your site may be all about information, Google wants all new sites paying for those adwords.That's a lie, Google would lose more in the long term than they would gain in the sort term, I think they have ran a bussiness long enough to know this!
I do not advocate any of this, I merely comment on what I have seen from Google. But, every time they click that "algo" knob to far to the right, it creates opportunities to the left."I know there is not a knob".
But, I am starting to like this,"Sandbox","ROS", "Algo Knob"
PS, does anybody agree with any thing I have said?
Those who disagree please add your URL here____________
I have a 97,000 page site, with a ROS link bar at the bottom of the pages. "Ha Ha Ha "
I was referring to a hobby type site, completely non-commercial.
I only grew one lemon tree, and I picked that out of the air as an example.
The tree is doing fine. I'm just wondering if hobby sites get sandboxed too.
I never use rel="nofollow", results could be highly unpredictable. -Larry
I didn't ask for the ROS link, and I believe there could now be a combined duplicate content + new link penalty, ripe for unfair exploitation.
Unfortunatley we're dealing with an algo and not humans, so the filter is going to be triggered by certain words or combinations, it's a fact it could be a hobby site but could still trigger the filter
Here's a few .... loan, property, travel, etc.....
According to Google the company have 349 web pages linking to them plus a further 1,660 that "contain the term". When examining the links more closely it seems that many of them come from one particular website that is obviously hosted and maintained by the same company as the style is so similar and it contains over 9,000 pages all of which link to my competitor and most of which contain so called press releases that are really nothing more than site padding..
Second place on Google to a major UK bank would be no mean achievement normally but I am also suffering from Google's recent decision to apply DMOZ descriptions so my careful prepared sales pitch has gone in favour of the flat and boring DMOZ description. My competitor isn't in DMOZ so they retain their own site description and their site description is now so much more enticing than mine :(
Are you, or your competitor, listed on yahoo?
Is so, try a linkdomain:yoursite and linkdomain:competitorsite
Googles backlinks are scrambled in terms of PR position. They also omit up to 75% percent of the total inbound links
The linkdomain of yahoo gives you a real good indication of the real inbound links and thier strenght.
I say "strength" instead of PR, because in some instances, is is better to have a high PR 4 site with a low # of outbound links linked to you.
A low PR 5 site with a high amount of out bound links on the page with cause dilution. (there are othe factors)
Additionally, I am looking at my linkdomain:mysite on Yahoo, the # of links of my site seems to be about right, and the top 10 page strength is dead on, from # 1 to # 10.
I would ask one of the other members about the description, I do not know!
One may be able to remove the descrip and put it on the first line of the page.
Get a hold of the moderator, I would bet he knows.
Assuming both sites are listed and updated on a normal basis, from both engines.
Is Google Gaming us?
Most odd as I have just done that and found that Yahoo says that I have 1,560 links whilst the competitor only has 256
I have the top slot on Yahoo but the big bank subsidiary can only manage 16th place on page 2 but they have an associated company that has a couple of pages on Yahoo's first page.
In view of the fact that I have to do all of my SEO work myself using hints and tips that I have picked up by lurking here I am very pleased that I occupy number 2 on Google and 1 on Yahoo whilst managing to keep pace with a high street bank whom I know spend thousands on SEO
PS if you are #2 on Google and # 1 on Yahoo do not touch a thing!
But, one may go to the overture search tool or word tracker and find other search terms that are related to yours specificaly the ones that have your one word term in them, and add content pages for them.
Example:: your term is "loan", that you rank so highly for.
One might want to add some optimzed pages, to thier site for cheap loan, fast loan, low interest loan, best loan, borrow, borrow Uk, uk loan, scotland loan.
As far as I am concerned you have done it with your search term.
Now you can do it again with related seach terms, or different search terms that mean the same thing.
I used to concentate on getting specific search terms to # 1 but it got me popped by google filters.
I would rather be above the fold for a lot of similar terms and or variations of the same term.
If your competition is getting all those anchor text links from one source, he will get popped.
And while he is sreaming "sandbox", you will slip back into # 1, and maybe for some other high traffic related terms too.
Overture search terms here
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I am not trying to do anything and in answer to Gary's question my site has a PR of 5 and the other site has a PR of 6
There is a web development and hosting company that "look after" a few of the funders' web sites in the specific category of commercial finance that I operate in. Additionally they operate a few sites themselves with all of the sites linking to each other and in particular have one site with 9,000 pages every one of which has a link to my bank subsidiary competitor.
I am happy with the relative positions of my site on the major search engines but was merely trying to point out that Google doesn't seem to penalise sites with thousands of ROS links from the same site and it wouldn't even surprise me if both linker and linkee sites were on the same server either.