Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.196.73.22

Forum Moderators: goodroi

Featured Home Page Discussion

Google has been fined 4.34billion euros ($5billion), Antitrust rules over Android OS

     
12:33 am on Jul 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


Google has been fined a record €4.34bn ($5bn; £3.9bn) over Android.

The European Commission said the firm had used the mobile operating system to illegally "cement its dominant position" in search.

The firm's parent Alphabet has been given 90 days to change its business practices or face further penalties of up to 5% of its average global daily turnover.

[bbc.co.uk...]

[edited by: engine at 1:41 pm (utc) on Jul 18, 2018]
[edit reason] corrected fines details at member's request [/edit]

12:40 am on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


From the same article
"What Google has done is illegal under EU antitrust rules," declared Margrethe Vestager, the European Union's Competition Commissioner.

"It has denied other companies the chance to compete on their merits and to innovate, and most importantly it has denied European consumers the benefits of competition, genuine choice and innovation."

Ms Vestager added that the decision could now set a precedent that determines how she handles related complaints about the prominence Google gives to its own maps, flight price results and local business listings within its search tools.

[bbc.com...]
12:48 am on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


Internet reaction to the EU fine on Google.
[bbc.co.uk...]
1:36 am on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lucy24 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 9, 2011
posts:15031
votes: 665


2.42bn €, hm, does that mean a couple of low-level Google employees won’t get a Christmas bonus this year?
10:56 am on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Administrator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Sept 21, 1999
posts:38177
votes: 77


[wsj.com...]
Google Is Fined $5 Billion by EU in Android Antitrust Case

Is this two separate fines? One for Shopping and one for Android?
11:09 am on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from IN 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 30, 2017
posts:1289
votes: 235


Expecting a massive AdSense clawback this month.
11:10 am on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Administrator from GB 

WebmasterWorld Administrator engine is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month Best Post Of The Month

joined:May 9, 2000
posts:25473
votes: 743


Is this two separate fines? One for Shopping and one for Android

For the record, the E.U. fined Google $2.7 Billion for its comparison shopping service in 27 June 2017 [webmasterworld.com...]

This current fine is 4.3 billion euros ($5bn; £3.8bn) over its Android operating system.

Here's the E.U. commission release [europa.eu...]
Antitrust: Commission fines Google €4.34 billion for illegal practices regarding Android mobile devices to strengthen dominance of Google's search engine

Brussels, 18 July 2018

The European Commission has fined Google €4.34 billion for breaching EU antitrust rules. Since 2011, Google has imposed illegal restrictions on Android device manufacturers and mobile network operators to cement its dominant position in general internet search.
11:50 am on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Aug 30, 2002
posts: 2646
votes: 96


Yep , Brett,
Two separate cases.

Regards...jmcc
12:06 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

5+ Year Member

joined:Jan 31, 2009
posts:157
votes: 3


It should be noted that EU has another investigation into Google’s business. This is looking at AdSense advert-placing business.

[indianexpress.com...]
12:18 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


Indeed two separate fines, my apologies, I caught the BBC article during the night ( when exhausted ) and posted a link to it and the associated articles here..Upon waking today , I heard French radio was saying it was an "android" related fine..I haven't looked at the BBC yet to see if they have corrected their article to one concerning the current android related fine.

Yes the adsense one is the thing that I would imagine will have most here worried, Google are I suspect far more worried about GDPR,( the potential GDPR fines could really hurt them ) hence no "solution" from them.

2.42bn €, hm, does that mean a couple of low-level Google employees won’t get a Christmas bonus this year?

You mean Larry and Sergey, as everyone knows that for years now Google has really been run by Wall st, channelled via Eric.

Expecting a massive AdSense clawback this month.

Made me smile :)
1:42 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Administrator from GB 

WebmasterWorld Administrator engine is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month Best Post Of The Month

joined:May 9, 2000
posts:25473
votes: 743


The original post is now corrected to the news of today's fines.
1:53 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Administrator from GB 

WebmasterWorld Administrator engine is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month Best Post Of The Month

joined:May 9, 2000
posts:25473
votes: 743


Google responds: Sundar Pichai pretty much rebuffs the E.U. decision on Android.
We’ve always agreed that with size comes responsibility. A healthy, thriving Android ecosystem is in everyone’s interest, and we’ve shown we’re willing to make changes. But we are concerned that today’s decision will upset the careful balance that we have struck with Android, and that it sends a troubling signal in favor of proprietary systems over open platforms.

[blog.google...]
2:57 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:May 29, 2007
posts: 894
votes: 143


How does the EU have the right to fine anyone?
3:01 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Aug 30, 2002
posts: 2646
votes: 96


Well it is more coherent than the post from Amit Singhal when Google announced the previous findings against Google. This part has me thinking of the cadence in the movie "Full Metal Jacket": "Good for partners, good for consumers". Good for you. Good for me. Could this encourage the US government agencies to reexamine some of the cases against Google that were closed under the previous administration?

Regards...jmcc
3:04 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


it sends a troubling signal in favor of proprietary systems over open platforms.

G knows that it sends nothing of the kind..it is not favouring proprietary platforms over open source, it is however saying

1)You cannot call your system "open source" when part of it is not.

2) You cannot strong arm , ( or "offer inducements" to ) or both , the OEM phone producers into incorporating your own non open source parts into the installation when they use the open source parts in order for you to gain massive market share for your OS and your products..forced bundling is not acceptable, it makes the phones android OS neither truly "free" nor truly "open source".
3:17 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


This part has me thinking of the cadence in the movie "Full Metal Jacket": "Good for partners, good for consumers". Good for you. Good for me.

Also ( and I think it is where the "full metal jacket" movie lifted the idea from..it is nearly the "Milo speech" in Catch 22 when he explains M&M enterprises, "What's good for M&M ... is good for everyone"..

How does the EU have the right to fine anyone?

Same way as the USA thinks it has the right to fine EU ( or other country's ) businesses / companies that deal with Iran since DT backed out of the Iran deal on a whim..

In fact the EU actually has a strong case..want to do business in the EU..abide by EU law..The EU doesn't care about what Google does with android in the USA, whereas DT thinks that non USA companies should do what he tells them even when it applies to what they do outside of the USA.

Google could just pull out of the EU, meaning search, adwords, adsense etc, and not allow android on phones sold in the EU..But they won't because the EU market is worth waaaaay too much to them..nearly 600 million sets of eyeballs, and with a lot of disposable income, and a lot of interest for adwords advertisers..
4:00 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Oct 5, 2001
posts:5851
votes: 102


Who gets all the money from the fines and what do they do with it?
4:28 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lucy24 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 9, 2011
posts:15031
votes: 665


How does the EU have the right to fine anyone?
Er... because they’re a governmental entity?
6:22 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 28, 2018
posts: 67
votes: 13


How does the EU have the right to fine anyone?

To put simply google has registered offices through the EU so those operations must abide by EU law and therefore can have fines imposed upon them if they are deemed to have broken the laws.
6:48 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from IN 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 30, 2017
posts:1289
votes: 235


What was the AdSense case all about? Never heard anything about it in detail.
10:06 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member editorialguy is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:June 28, 2013
posts:3275
votes: 676


Who gets all the money from the fines and what do they do with it?

Good question. What happens with other tariffs?
10:21 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


Good question. What happens with other tariffs?

@EG...What "other tariffs" these are fines, "tariffs" are customs charges..anyone who is in ecom or import export knows the two things , tariffs and fines ,are not remotely connected..!.
Tariffs are another subject completely..
Fines imposed in by country , be it the USA or a group of countries such as the EU go into "central government funding", and are then distributed as the USA federal govt or the EU sees fit, could be used for blow and hookers in Vegas, or totally wasted.
11:33 pm on July 18, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lucy24 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 9, 2011
posts:15031
votes: 665


or totally wasted
Now, is that the inclusive (vel) or the exclusive (aut) “or”?
12:06 am on July 19, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


or totally wasted


Now, is that the inclusive (vel) or the exclusive (aut) “or”?

In the context of what politicians do with government ( our..meaning taxpayers of "wherever" ) money, it could be either, or both.
3:45 am on July 19, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lucy24 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 9, 2011
posts:15031
votes: 665


Inclusive, then. (a OR b), as opposed to ((a AND NOT b) OR (b AND NOT a)) Although, seriously, what proportion of your average governmental entity's revenues--at any level--comes from fines/penalties as opposed to other categories of assessment? Drop in the bucket.
9:40 am on July 19, 2018 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 15, 2004
posts:502
votes: 72


In similar fashion I wonder if the appointment of Kavanaough at the US Supreme Court would allow class actions...

You see EU pockets huge fines for big guys abusing their power but where does the money go? How are the real victims going to be compensated?

On the other hand I am already preparing to contribute to that fine...
11:17 am on July 19, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


Where do fines for j walking go ? Where do fines for speeding go? Where do fines for drug smuggling go ? Where do fines for people trafficking go ? Where do fines for dieselgate go ? Where do fines for anything go ?
Of what possible relevance is it where the fines go ? unless you are attempting to insinuate that the EU needs 5 billion so badly ( hint..it doesn't as Lucy said this fine is not even a drop in the EU budgetary bucket ) that it "picks on" Google ?

Or are you saying that if Google has to pay a fine that it might affect how much you pay them for adwords , or how much you get back in adsense ? So in that hypothetical case Google ( and anyone else ) should never have to pay fines for illegal actions , in case they decide ( which would be pretty immoral of them ) to claw back the money by ripping off someone else ?

Google broke EU law whilst trading and operating some of their business in the EU, they knew that what they were doing was not allowed ( no body passed special anti-Google laws here and then back dated them ) , laws they have been breaking existed here before Google was even a thought in the heads of Larry and Sergey.

They can either pay the fines, and stop doing the illegal acts, or leave and close up all their EU operations, where the fines go is not relevant at all.
11:22 am on July 19, 2018 (gmt 0)

Junior Member from CA 

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Oct 1, 2002
posts:124
votes: 11


@Leosghost - You've been explaining an irrelevant question quite well :-)
11:25 am on July 19, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


Ps..All countries "pocket huge fines" imposed against the "big guys", the USA slammed VW with a huge fine, and also some EU banks, China imposes big fines, etc etc..This is not the EU picking on USA companies, this is certain USA ( and other country's companies , including in many cases EU companies ) companies , willingly breaking laws and thinking that they will get away with it because the legal cases will be to complex or that they are too big to take on, or that they can bribe and coerce politicians and legislators to leave them alone to continue breaking the law, or that they have more lawyers and can win by "legal attrition"..or that they can dupe some people into saying the y should be left alone because "where do the fines go" or "I might be out of pocket if the big guys when fined , take it out on me the little guy"..
11:39 am on July 19, 2018 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from FR 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Feb 15, 2004
posts:6902
votes: 326


@Leosghost - You've been explaining an irrelevant question quite well :-)

:)
Personally I'd prefer if executives got long jail time instead of their companies and the ultra rich being fined amounts that ( even huge by anyone else's standards ) they can pay from what is to them "small change"..

That would make all of us equal before the law, rather than the position that is current of the little guy goes to jail for something that the big rich guy pays a fine and stays out of jail for..But then in the case of transnational decisions such as these the rich guys would just laugh and avoid travelling to where they had been sentenced to jail time for.

So..fines it has to be..for now..although I'd add jail time for the C-suite too if ever any of them stepped foot in countries where they had been found guilty.
This 50 message thread spans 2 pages: 50