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EU Votes To Split Up Google's Services

     
1:42 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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System: The following 3 messages were cut out of thread at: http://www.webmasterworld.com/goog/4717759.htm [webmasterworld.com] by engine - 2:45 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (utc 0)


the EU is the largest economy in the world

[en.wikipedia.org...]

and the EU have just voted to break up Google

[bbc.co.uk...]

the EU are applying their panda update... there maybe turbulent results now for Google.

like the web spammers, google have tried to game the tax system and over advertise their own services, this was bad for users, An algo refresh is needed

[edited by: nonstop at 2:06 pm (utc) on Nov 27, 2014]

1:49 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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Almunia : I wouldn't be surprised if people at some quarters had dark suspicions about the way he was dealing with the Google issue . . . . . . . .


No. No way. Definitely not. He is a professional politician, so he wouldn't do anything unethical, for his own future gain, would he. You can tell that to the army, tell it to the navy and above all tell it to the marines.

He surely isn't a naďve incompetent who wouldn't know a stitch-up from a smorgasbord either.

(I still shake my head in disbelief when I read about what he was prepared to accept. Whatever his reason was it is deeply disturbing).

and the EU have just voted to break up Google


Time for some serious "lobbying". Is their budget big enough, I wonder?
2:27 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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I see stock market news is reporting on the EU vote in breaking up Google at [cnbc.com...] as well. But in after hours trading it looks like investors are shrugging this off as a non-event. Google's shares are barely down.
2:04 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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System: The following message was spliced on to this thread from: http://www.webmasterworld.com/goog/4718604.htm [webmasterworld.com] by engine - 2:46 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (utc 0)


Would it make any effect?
Just red this news:
[businessinsider.com ]
3:01 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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This is really very interesting.

Has a nation state any real power to undertake the break up? I doubt it.

Has a nation state any right to dictate to a foreign business how it operates? I don't believe so.

Has a nation state the right to dictate how business is done within its borders? I believe it has, to an extent. As long as the business is carried out in a manner which meets the nation state's laws.

Politicians! They really don't have a good reputation on Internet-related matters and it might be best to leave it to others that know better.

And remember, it's not just Google, it could be Microsoft's Bing, and any other business.
3:03 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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Talk about shameless: The resolution's chief promoter is a lawyer for the German publisher's group that wants Google to pay for supplying its members with traffic. (This is the kind of thing one might expect in Italy or Greece, but not from Germany.) See:

[searchengineland.com...]
3:08 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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Google's shares are barely down.


Is the stock market open on thanksgiving?
3:18 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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Yes another great EU crap, and then more thousands of unemployment following the curtins in huge portals, online newspapers etc that their only income is adsense. What a bunch of wallies.
5:00 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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It'll be interesting to see whether the outcome of this 'think tank' will result in tangible change.
5:09 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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From the wonderful people who brought the EU the Cookie Law? Still though, if it upsets the Google fanboys and fangirls, it is something. :)

Happy Thanksgiving etc.

Regards...jmcc
5:12 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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It'll be interesting to see whether the outcome of this 'think tank' will result in tangible change.
Most businesses and people in the EU ignore the Brussels sprouts.

Regards...jmcc
5:37 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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<shrug>

Yea, good luck with that.
5:49 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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Could anyone explain what it means to 'split up operations'? What would in summary happen if Google was affected?
6:12 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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Selen, it's referring to an "unbundling" of services, rather than operations. Perhaps the title could use a tweak.

Here are the documents.


Stresses the need to ensure a level playing field for companies operating in the digital single market in order for them to be able to compete; calls, therefore, on the Commission to properly enforce EU competition rules in order to prevent excessive market concentration and abuse of dominant position and to monitor competition with regard to bundled content and services;


[europarl.europa.eu...]

Search market and price comparison websites

13. Welcomes the announcement by the Commissioner for competition of further investigations by the Commission into search engines’ practices and the digital market in general;

14. Notes that the online search market and price comparison websites are of particular importance in ensuring competitive conditions within the digital single market, given their potential development into gatekeepers and the possibility they have of commercialising secondary exploitation of information obtained; therefore calls on the Commission to strengthen the monitoring of so-called ‘first mover’ advantages and network effects in the digital sector that can quickly develop into abuses of dominant positions, and to enforce EU competition rules decisively, on the basis of input from all relevant stakeholders and taking into account the entire structure of the digital single market in order to ensure remedies that truly benefit consumers, internet users and online businesses;

[europarl.europa.eu...]

13. Notes that the online search market is of particular importance in ensuring competitive conditions within the digital single market, given the potential development of search engines into gatekeepers and the possibility they have of commercialising secondary exploitation of information obtained; calls, therefore, on the Commission to enforce EU competition rules decisively, based on input from all relevant stakeholders and taking into account the entire structure of the digital single market in order to ensure remedies that truly benefit consumers, internet users and online businesses; calls, furthermore, on the Commission to consider proposals aimed at unbundling search engines from other commercial services as one potential long-term solution;

[europarl.europa.eu...]
6:21 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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AMEN! I really hope Google fails miserably and gets spanked by the US anti competitive regulations, they have completely overdone it in all aspects of online business and fairness.

EU lawmakers vote to break up Google in 'desperate measures'
[cnbc.com...]
6:36 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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It won't happen in the US.

As for the EU, why not spend the time and effort and money encouraging one or more European entrepreneurs to develop the real competitor they don't have?
6:37 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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The European Commission began an antitrust investigation into Google in November 2010 after a number of companies, including Microsoft, complained that the company was promoting its own services and products at the expense of others.

From the above it's still not clear. If they talk about promoting of Google-owned properties like Youtube, Gmail, etc. or promoting the sites that use Adsense or other sorts of advertising operated by Google.

One way or the other, politics shouldn't determine the competitive market..
6:38 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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One has to wonder why, 25 years after the Web was invented and nearly 20 years after the commercial Web was launched, nobody in the EU has come up with a competitive search engine. (And by competitive, I don't mean "competitive with Google," I mean competitive, period. Where was the EU when Webcrawler, HotBot, AltaVista, Excite, Infoseek, etc. were testing the waters of Web search?)

The EU doesn't need more protectionism, it needs more innovation.
6:51 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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Has a nation state any right to dictate to a foreign business how it operates? I don't believe so.


The big problem with the EU is that they don't believe in the American Dream where you work hard, deliver a superior product, and get rewarded for your efforts by taking over a marketplace.

I think as long as they have incorporated offices doing massive amounts of business in those countries, incorporated in those countries, it's fair game for those countries specifically.

If I were Google I'd put a projection down to show the EU how much money they spend in the EU, how many people they employ, internet services purchased locally for a better grade of service, etc.

I would tell the EU that Google is just going to roll up their carpet, put those masses of employees on the government unemployment rolls, and stop all local spending and see just how much money they would lose.

I'm suspecting that the sudden shutdown of all that local money being spent would cause a major shockwave that would cause a serious ripple in the EUs internet ecosystem.

Just like some companies in the US have done mergers and relocated headquarters to CA just to avoid threats of split ups by the government.

That's how I'd play it ;)

Now something the EU could do that wouldn't single out Google and would appear to have a bit of fairness would be to simply designate search engines a public utility and then make them all play by the same rules across the board.

Just a thought.
6:53 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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EditorialGuy

Re: 'The EU doesn't need more protectionism, it needs more innovation.'

It has to do with very high barriers to entry, GOOG and other companies have sly ways to prevent competition, I don't think I need to spell it out but I feel VERY confident that this is still part of the main problem and needs a fix, the fix needs to come from the Gov't bodies themselves. Big business IS NOT fair to small and mid size business.
7:05 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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Here's more on the matter.

The European Parliament called on EU member states and the European Commission to break down barriers to the growth of the EU's digital single market in a resolution voted on Thursday. MEPs also stressed the need to prevent online companies from abusing dominant positions by enforcing EU competition rules and unbundling search engines from other commercial services. MEPs zero in on internet search companies and clouds [europarl.europa.eu]

Given the role of internet search engines in “commercialising secondary exploitation of obtained information” and the need to enforce EU competition rules, MEPs also call on the Commission “to consider proposals with the aim of unbundling search engines from other commercial services” in the long run.


Google has, so far, remained silent on the topic, but i'm sure the result of the vote wasn't entirely unexpected. I would imagine when all the turkey is consumed, there may be something from google along the lines that it will comply with local laws, etc.

In real terms, there isn't much that can be done, imho. The EU can only call for changes and impose fines. Google has the ultimate sanction and that is to leave the EU region.
7:09 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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If I were Google I'd put a projection down to show the EU how much money they spend in the EU, how many people they employ, internet services purchased locally for a better grade of service, etc.

They make far more money from EU via adwords etc ( last that I could find released figures, 4th quarter 2011 it was 10% of Google's gross income from the UK alone ) than they spend in the EU..

Income from UK was 1.06 billion in Q4 2011..so safe to say yearly total Gross income from UK alone was around 4 billion..

No way did G spend more than 4 billion in the UK in 2011..in fact they declared taxable revenues of around 150 million ( claiming adwords contracts were run from Ireland and thus income from the UK should be taxed at Irish rates ) and employment etc costs in the UK of around 250 million..

They certainly didn't put 3750 million back into the UK economy via employment, employee spend, service purchases etc etc..

So in the UK alone..Google made 4 billion, and spent ( via taxes and costs ) at best 400 million..

If that gross income to outgoings % holds for the rest of the EU..then G needs the EU 10 times more ( for it's bottom line ) than the EU needs Google ..

Income in Q4 2011 from outside USA was 56% of total Gross income..

No reason to believe that Google makes any less in 2014 from sales in the EU than it did in 2011 and no reason to believe that it spends proportionally ( or is responsible for any more spend via employees , purchasing of goods or services etc ) any more in 2014 in the EU than it did in 2011..

The yearly and quarterly results of Google ( and the breakdowns of income and expenditure in each region and country ) speak for themselves, whatever one might like to imagine..


Found Google earning report for 2013..UK gross earnings up to around 6 billion for full year 2013..Did G spend more than 6 billion the the UK ( which is part of the EU , for those who might have thought otherwise ) ..so who gains from G activities in the EU..G or the EU.. ? G by an even bigger percentage than before..
Google Segment International Revenues - Google segment revenues from outside of the United States totaled $8.77 billion, representing 56% of total Google segment revenues in the fourth quarter of 2013, compared to 56% in the third quarter of 2013 and 54% in the fourth quarter of 2012.

Google segment revenues from the United Kingdom totaled $1.50 billion, representing 10% of total Google segment revenues in the fourth quarter of 2013, compared to 10% in the fourth quarter of 2012

[investor.google.com...]

[edited by: Leosghost at 7:34 pm (utc) on Nov 27, 2014]

7:27 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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It has to do with very high barriers to entry, GOOG and other companies have sly ways to prevent competition


The barriers to entry were extremely low in 1989 or 1995 (or even later, when Google came along). Where was the EU then? Protectionism isn't a panacea for more than two decades of ignoring where the world was headed.

Protectionism can also backfire. In the U.S., much of the publishing industry has been taken over by European firms. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine the U.S. Congress holding hearings about foreign-nmedia ownership and consolidation. As the expression goes,"What's good for the goose is good for the gander."
7:38 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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Protectionism can also backfire. In the U.S., much of the publishing industry has been taken over by European firms. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine the U.S. Congress holding hearings about foreign-nmedia ownership and consolidation. As the expression goes,"What's good for the goose is good for the gander."

Red herring..( Topic is about Google and the EU, not international mergers and acquisitions ) besides which EU companies do not control over 90% of USA publishing..
7:49 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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It is not useful or helpful confusing Anti-Monopoly action with Protectionism. Wrong path.

People underestimating this overwhelming vote in the EU Parliament (384 to 174) do so to their peril. The EU estimates *annual* damage to the European economy from the current SE situation at Euro 260 billion.

This issue is major, not going away any time soon. True, the EU (population 550 million) moves mostly slowly, but move it does.

.

[edited by: heisje at 7:52 pm (utc) on Nov 27, 2014]

7:51 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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Nope, it isn't a red herring, because we're talking about politics.

The European Parliament vote is about politics, pure and simple.
8:00 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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best news i've heard all day. it's just a shame that nothing will actually happen for another million billion years though, at the speed these bodies work
8:26 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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best news i've heard all day. it's just a shame that nothing will actually happen for another million billion years though, at the speed these bodies work


I wouldn't be so sure. The Germans are driving this and they can be very single minded when they want to be.

Interesting to see what a big head of steam is up already, only days after Almunia started collecting his unemployment benefit. I reckon a lot of people in the European political scene have been waiting for this very impatiently so for my money this is just the beginning.
8:39 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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The European Parliament vote is about politics, pure and simple.


The European Parliament vote is about trade, and ending monopoly practices that undermine free trade in Europe. There is nothing anti-American or anti-anybody else in this at all.

Our own biggest Internet service provider in the UK, BT, tried using similar tactics to Google (sneakily gathering data on unsuspecting members of the public in order to target advertising) years ago. They were promptly slapped down and threatened with prosecution. Google has been told over and over again that it's illegal over here and they still do it. It is well about time that they were slapped as well.

Frankly none of us care whether Google comes from America, China or Alpha Centauri, if they obeyed the law over here they wouldn't have a problem.
8:44 pm on Nov 27, 2014 (gmt 0)

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for my money this is just the beginning


I hope so. I think we all ignore an unregulated monopoly at our peril.
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