Forum Moderators: goodroi
It's great that Google is taking a stand but, heck, if the Chinese government made it law that Google hands over complete search history of every American over Google's entire lifetime ...? (yes, they've stored every single search everyone's ever made ... and the IP to go with that search). If it's made a condition for trading in China Google would likely comply with the new Chinese law.
It's possible Google records and stores a lot more personal data than the others. And it possibly derives substantially more information (and power) from data mining/combining bits of data/having access to further data on your hard disk that you thought was private.
The Register [theregister.co.uk] says:
But more recently it has begun to integrate services which record the user's personal search history, email, shopping habits, and social contacts. After first promising not to tie its email service to its search service, Google went ahead and opted its users in anyway.
Is nobody frightened that power has a way of attracting more power and Google could become a monster completely out of control? I'm not looking for Google bashing or Google hugging.... but your opinions on this:
Should Google be reigned in now? How?
You may trust Google but all your data can still be compromised. Worse still the data can be combined with your email conversations and lots more to make you pay more tax, higher health insurance premiums, higher child mainenance costs... or whatever some third party government decides. Or some hacker. Or a disgruntled employee. And the fact that Google plays clean now, keeps your information confidential, does not exploit it, and does not hand it over to the government could well change in time. What if Bill Gates bought Google 10 years from now? Would you still trust it? Rupert Murdoch? A Robert Maxwell?
As this article from slate [slate.com] says:
This has nothing to do with our mistrust of Google and everything to do with mistrust of the range of government actors—domestic and foreign—that Google must ultimately obey.
I think Google should be one of the world's major worries. If not for what it does now ... for what may come out of it later.
Sorry for rambling... here's the question again:
Should Google be reigned in now? How?
This attempt has actually succeeded with lesser SE's being unable to defend such requests in court due to insufficient funding - but Google has issued the challenge.
If the government looses, they will try again; my guess is using the 'homeland security' argument - which a lot of people WOULD actually support.
Ie, they might say they suspect email addresses or visitors of particular websites being involved in suspected terrorist activities - and a lot of countries recently have just toughened up their anti-terrorist laws to the point where they just have to say 'we suspect this information to be in your house' and that's enough to enter and seize property.
If this is the case, then it would be a pretty credible argument that Google would posses such data and therefore would not be beyond the means of the government to access such evidence/data.
Of course, I have little knowledge of the exact laws pertaining to that situation in the US - but I am pretty sure Bush has that sort of access covered if need be.
Once the floodgate/precedent is set - who knows where it would end - and yes I do believe its a concern in the long term.
However, I also believe Google has the right to collect such data, just as we have the right to block their cookie - thereby anonymising our searches with no real disadvantage beyond being bound to using default search preferences.
However if you use the toolbar or any other of their services, they have that data anyway - as does any other service we provide personal information to.
Even with the cookie blocked, they still have IP/Browser/screen resolutions/platform/versions etc they can still use to partially identify you. (ie even on a dynamic IP there is a good chance if you use a screen with 1500x1400 @ 32bit on Windows XP x64 (as I do on my laptop) you would be within a minority and therefor in some ways identifiable.
For now at the very least, If you plan to do anything dodgy while using the internet, you best do it through an anonymising proxy - which if you ever really cared you would already use ;-)
p.s. as I just ran the spell check on the google toolbar, i just realised how much of a sucker I am - everything I just spell checked was just sent off to google - DOH!
As per: [google.com...]
Far better to look out your windows, see that car parked across the road? Heard that click on the phone line when you answer a call? And better to seal your mail with stickytape accross the corners, makes extracting, reading and reinserting the letters almost impossible without detection.
Matt
By "personal data" you mean search request and IP address, with IP addresses allocated dynamically, and people changing ISP
Small flaw in your logic: You pick out some of the ways they can identify you, assume that's the full list, rubbish them, and conclude that nobody can be tracked as there are no other ways ;)
The trend is for them to want more and more data and to get more and more intrusive in their acquisition of it. Log into your Adwords account and if you do a Google search in another tab have a look at the top right of your screen: Yes, your email address. Why are they tracking your searches and associating them with the email address you use for the Adwords login? The data collection is getting gratuitous, invasive and dangerous.
So, avoid all Google services? That's no protection in itself. You'll have to do a lot more, opt out of various things (Google Cache to name just one)/Google Print, avoid sites with Adsense or block those ads... etc. But there's a limit to that, will you stop browsing sites using GA for their stats? Stop writing to people who use gmail addresses?
To those who don't see a problem: Consider what would happen if someone other than Google got accesss to all that data on you/your business. Imagine someone getting access to what Google has on you: Everything you searched for, every keyword you PPC and how much you pay, every site you ever visited, what pages you viewed there and how long you stayed, who's written to you and what they've said, all your personal details stored in auto fill, every ebook you've bought, your IDs, nicks, networks of sites/people/businesses/customers, your passwords, your tax numbers, your credit card numbers etc etc. More details than spyware typically has access to! Maybe that'll be the next security threat and spyware makers will switch their attention.
I don't honestly believe that such a security lapse is imminent. But, as a civilisation we pay many billions into protecting against eventualities that are a lot less likely. Yet we seem to be ignoring this one.
