Forum Moderators: martinibuster
I along with a ton of others who have been shown the door from google's adsence strikly becouse of building scraper sites.
I have tried to get back in but, have been told (through email as I don't have a adsence phone number to a live person to call) that my services are no longer needed.
My question is (to all here and to any "offical adsence members" from google here on webmasterworld as well): Should getting banned for building scraper sites get you kicked out of adsence for "LIFE"?
Anyone else here that has been kicked out for building scraper sites (and) who actaul got back in, please share you input here as well as those people who are in my shoe's.
There is one other thing to consider. The people who have been banned from adsence, once ypn becomes aviable, we will all be going over there (along with thousands of other PO'ed webmasters who can't even call a adsence person on the phone to get a answer, even though they are doing thousands of $$$$ in biz monthly). Now don't get me wrong, I am not going over to ypn to do scraper sites (i have real content sites for ypn and for adsence if I could get back in for that matter) but, the "EX" scraper site builders are infact brillant seo's and know how to bring trageted traffic to advertiser's, why would adsence want to just throw "us" in the garbage can and watch there market share shrink when they should be looking for ways to stay on top. Heck, I would even be for a "pobation peroid" for offender's like me but, I "LIFE TIME BAN" (as in never ever again).....
Teeceo.
I think google will boot a good deal of these useless scraper sites once YPN launches. They will all go to yahoo and the "quality" of that network will dive.
"My question is, how do you know that you were kicked out because you use a scraper site? Did they specifically state that in communication with you?" basically yes. having scraper sites was "all" that I was doing so, if it wasn't for that then what was it for?
Anyway, this is not a "feel sorry for me" thread, this is a thread about what is good busines for adsence. Showing people the door for life in the face of new comp. or maybe them actaully taking time out to talk with people who have been ban "by phone" and see if they could right there wrongs.
I would love to hear what other have to say on this topic.
why haven't the advertiser's ever compained about them?:)
Advertisers have often complained in the AdWords forum, and some have mentioned complaining to Google, too.
As for whether Google should ban scrapers and other blatant TOS violators for life, that's really up to Google--but if I were Google, I'd probably be inclined to let the repented sinners test their self-restraint at YPN or MSN.
I am glad they are being removed cause I find Google much less useful if the SERP's are filled with scrapers - I have had to turn to other engines for my research because of this and I am sure others are doing the same - this can spell doom for Google AND adsense.
But I guess you can be given another chance "if" you are going to use it legitimately this time. But unfortunately Google probably does not have the time [and it may not be that profitable] to monitor your usage.
As for if it would be profiteable for them to monitor scraper site affenders if given another shot, well i can tell you this, I did over 1/2 mil. last year with them personally so, if there are other out there like me (and I have talked to plenty of them) i am betting it would be well worth putting us on some sort of a probation period or something.
Not only that, all scraper sites get reported to google (maybe even on a daily basis's) so there is no real problem with the monitoring od these type's of sites.
teeceo.
That said, it's their business and they can refuse service to anyone for any reason.
If it is that important to you to have an AdSense account you could create a legal agency or corporation and try again. Consult an attorney.
When I say I am banned, I mean I am trully BANNED. And again, NO I didn't do anything in adsence other then have scraper sites.
(Btw, I maybe the only one who is banned that will talk about it but, believe me, I am not alone in this seemingly lifetime ban).
Teeceo.
P.s. "Consult an attorney." For what, its there sandbox:).
I along with a ton of others
once again folks, be prepared to face this ton right here in the forum. google seems to weed them out finally.
life time.. no - 15 years would be enough.
but pretty unlikely that they start resumption processes, if they once have proven fact.
nobody needs you, you know?
NO I didn't do anything in adsence other then have scraper sites.It must have been a very odious scraper, they probably identified your new agency/corporation because you didn't change the thing that got you banned, or there's something going on here that you're not telling us.
My site was banned from Google search because (I think) it has things in common with scraper sites. It has since been reincluded in the index and I don't think Google handled that very well, but my AdSense account was never threatened through all that as far as I know...
So I think you must have been doing some powerful scraping and not changing your ways with a new account.
If you do this through an attorney you may well achieve a better level of anonymity, but not if you put up the same old stuff that got you banned in the first place.
I hope you were wise enough to have invested your earnings as it is obvious that you will not earn on more "red cent" from AdSense.
Like it or not, Google is taking a stand on "scraper" sites. It is actually heartening to know that Google is making such a stand - even though it appears to be against economical wisdom, according to the story you present. Obviously Google must feel that it is advantageous to discontinue business relations with "scraper" publishers, even though it seemingly was a profitable endeavor.
I can only surmise by the evidence presented that Google has decided that continuing to support "scraper" sites in the AdSense program presented a long term economic risk. As corporations are firstly accountable to its shareholders, apparently their long-term view pointed toward diminishing earnings if they continued partnerships with scrapers.
It is difficult to determine exactly which faction put forth the winning arguments against "scraper" sites, as there have been many speaking out against the practice for well over a year now, but it would seem that logic may have finally prevailed. Advertisers refused to pay top dollar for advertising on "scraper" site, while Google must continue to grow revenues from AdSense...
By "phasing out" scraper sites... Google will be able to encourage Adwords Advertisers to confidently bid higher for their Keywords campaigns, as Google can affirm that they are taking a pro-active stance against what many consider sub-par content. Additionally, Google "cleans up" the program to entice new Advertisers that have been reluctant to participate in AdWords knowing of the negative public perception that "scraper" sites induced (in other words, the average web surfer hated them as a waste of their time).
However "Scraper Publishers" should not forlorn as there is an ever-growing number of 2nd & 3rd Tier contextual advertising networks competing with Google, which you can migrate your content to in order to generate revenue. Unfortunately most lack the market reach that Google provides to advertisers, so naturally one must settle for lower earnings.
The same sentiment has been said over and over in many words, but the same message... if you are a publisher in this business for the long haul, abide by Google TOS. Those who scoffed at this notion and grabbed the "quick buck" are now paying the ultimate price for their misguided publishing techniques.
For those that have not yet been banned, there is still time to mend your ways if you wish to continue with the AdSense program... otherwise you will find increasingly less sympathetic ears for your crying.... "I've been banned from AdSense!"
All I know is that my "earnings per click" has been steadily rising the past month or so... I can only conclude this is because advertisers can justly reward quality, now that sites that strained their advertising budget by sending non-converting traffic are being systematically removed from AdSense.
Thank you Google!
teeceo - I wish you "good luck" with your future publishing endeavors...
Here is something just for your enjoyment. When they banned my llc account, instead of them sending me a check to the p.o. box I had put into my adsence account, they send the check directly to my home:), Kinda a "no you ain't slick and yes we have turned off your account) type move and thats just what they did. I would bet the farm too that the check they sent me (in my name not the llc's name) is as rubber as a dodgeball. I have it still and it will be hung on my wall as a reminder of the good'ol days......
Back to the question, does getting banned for scraper sites warrant a lifetime ban?
Teeceo.
As somebody has already said, their presence makes the whole browsing experience worse, and ultimately reduces the number of clicks on ads. If you did a search on widgets, and clicked on a couple of the ads only to find that what you thought would lead to a useful sites were scrapers, you'd stop clicking the ads. I no longer click ads in search because I know most of them are useless scrapers.
The other issue as has been pointed out is that as Google's search is cluttered up with junk, people are finding it harder to find what they were looking for. If that's the case then people will switch to another search engine.
Hopefully if Google are having a mass cull of scrapers, the browsing experience will improve.
The problem of having adsense chocked full of scrapers is that it's a financial disaster waiting to happen. It's called a "Bubble".
The business model of the scrapers who use adsense is to buy traffic cheaply, and hopefully convert most of the leads they get into clicks for other advertisers that are more profitable. They don't have to make a lot of profit on the clicks - just have lots of them. However, most ads for scrapers lead to a site that is often cluttered with adsense ads for other scrapers.
The current algorythm places scrapers highly based on CTR and will often remove ads from real advertisers that pay well to place them in the mistaken belief that they will convert better. The ONLY reason the convert is that there is no content on these pages, and people click out - often via an advert. But that madness is another thread.....
Scenario:- Visitor arrives on the site, and sees an interesting ad. Clicks on it and arrives at scraper. "This isn't what I want - this ad looks promising". Click - another scraper. All that has happened is webmasters have paid / recieved a few cents for a visitor to come and go. Nobody has purchased anything. Adsense can only work if people are flexing the plastic and buying goods and services off of genuine advertisers that have goods and services to sell.
Now if you have the situation where a lot of the advertisers are scrapers, and Google (in it's wisdom / madness) has placed ads for other scrapers on the scraper, then all that is happening is webmasters are exchanging small amounts of money in exchange for traffic. It's pure bubble mentality, and bubbles burst.
Adsense HAS to be underpinned by real advertisers selling things to customers - marginalising them in favour of scrapers is absolutely crazy. Hopefully if Google are booting out scrapers they have finally realised this. What took you so long Google? Google's financial future rests on then not messing up adsense and their search engine - they HAVE to get rid of the scrapers, and SHOULD ban them for life.
Any other evidence that Google is really starting to get rid of scrapers? In the SERPS? In AdSense?
"I didn't do anything in adsence other then have scraper sites".
And in Google-land, that is a very serious offence!
I don't know the details of your case, but in general
scraper sites systematically produce stolen or duplicated content. Over and over again.
Your scraper sites might have polluted millions of search results and possibly displayed stolen or duplicated content millions of times. This possibly damaged the reputation and the income of Google and thousands of its publishers and advertisers.
In most countries you go to jail for that.
In Google-land they only terminate your account.
But since spamming ia now illegal in most countries, it wouldn't surprise me if making scraper sites will become a criminal offence too in a short while.
To be honest, I sure hope so.
But to answer your question:
I think a ban for a year or a couple of years would be OK too. But there really is no point in that for Google. If I were them I wouldn't wanne work with folks that have proven to disregard agreements.
There are millions of honest folks out there who just live by the book. I'd rather do business with them...
All I know is that my "earnings per click" has been steadily rising the past month or so... I can only conclude this is because advertisers can justly reward quality, now that sites that strained their advertising budget by sending non-converting traffic are being systematically removed from AdSense.
Hmmmm.....
I've been seeing a remarkable upturn in epc too. I put it down solely to the fact that I've been blocking all MFA ads from my site, and smartpricing has upped the value of my site as a result. I'd love to believe that the increase is partly as a result of improved advertiser confidence based on removal of the sites that drain their budgets and offer nothing.
Does getting banned for scraper sites warrant a lifetime ban?
Ironic that a definition for the word "warrant" includes:
a written assurance that some product or service will be provided or will meet certain specifications.
Of course, the irony is that you agreed to Google's warrant (aka: TOS), and then willingly broke those terms for your benefit.
My answer: Yes. Banned for life. If I were Google, or anyone else for that matter, I wouldn't trust your business ethics.
But the bottom line for me is that Google can choose to do business with whatever people and sponsor whichever sites it wishes. Using the word "banned" makes it sound harsh, but nobody has an absolute right to have Google pay them for clicks and doing without AdSense is really no great hardship.
I have also seen a dramatic decline in the appearance of these scraper sites in Google SERPs... and even Yahoo has begun to eliminate them (since MSN's recent SERP improvement).
I think what is happening is that the "Big Boys" are cleaning house now that they bult up the market foundations... and lessor quality sites will "partner" with 2nd & 3rd Tier ad networks.
It was just a matter of time... Google accepted EVERYONE initially just to build up scale & strength of numbers - Advertisers couldn't resist the number of eyeballs Google AdSense could provide...
Now enter Yahoo & MSN... the competition forces everyone to deliver better quality....
And the secondary market becomes more robust as lessor quality sites come a-knocking as they still want to try to make money... albeit at a humbling pace. Only the scraper's know if it was worth it... Some people can always justify "theft" for short-term personal gain.
But in response to your observations & hopes - "Yes," I have seen a measurable increase in "earnings per click" without banning any advertsers... Seeing how it is the slow part of the year (US market)... and I am receiving less traffic... the "Big Name" advertisers are seeminly paying more for traffic.... quality traffic is hard to come by at the moment... most people are minding their budgets at the moment (my opinion)
[edited by: alwaysthinking at 7:01 am (utc) on Oct. 3, 2005]
teeceo.
Google will be able to encourage Adwords Advertisers to confidently bid higher for their Keywords campaigns, as Google can affirm that they are taking a pro-active stance against what many consider sub-par content.
I don't think that the total revenue from existing advertisers will increase. The advertiser is willing to pay X for a visitor to his site (that's his budget). It has been stated by some advertisers that they do not care where visitors are coming from, "as long as the visitors convert".
So why not more money? Today the existing budget is shared between Google and the scraper. The authors of pages providing the original content leave empty-handed, but they are important to the business as neither scrapers nor Google actually create content (they just re-use it). Furthermore, scrapers add no value to the value chain - they just step in where the original publisher should be in the first place.
Thus, by removing scrapers from their business Google make more money available to original publishers if the advertiser's budget remains the same. They do not do this for friendliness towards the publishers, but they are following clear business goals.
By removing scrapers, Google will be able to...
- improve the perceived quality of Adsense, thus improving marketing communication and attracting new advertisers
- reduce complaints about Adsense from advertisers, stimulating usage of content network
- reduce complaints about Adsense from publishers, reducing churn to other ad programs
- reduce complaints about Adsense from end-consumers, increasing their confidence in Adsense
- improve the end-consumers' statisfaction with Google Search, Google's core product
- fight their competitors, as publishers booted from Adsense will most likely turn to YPN/MSN
- secure long-term business and growth as a mighty player in the contextual advertising business
Looks like a no-brainer to me. Now, if Google applied the above for the remaining sites that violate the Adsense TOS, I am very confident that upcoming competitors will have a much harder time to get into this business.
It was just a question of time when they'd start removing scrapers, and today I feel that Google was very aware of the situation all the time. Only now (with competition heating up) they had to end the party. So, competition in the contextual ad market is a very good thing to have - at least for publishers of unique content.
As to the question of the OP about whether "being banned by Google for life" is okay or not. Come on, this sounds soo dramatic, like a lifelong prison sentence or something. Just think about it - it makes absolute sense for Google to not seek business with parties who have shown that they are not sticking to the agreed terms (even if Google tolerated this practice for some time). Scrapers were actually be used by Google to grab some quick cash. Now that they have to take care of their long-term business strategy, they just turn to someone else for business.
You have not been banned from the advertising market for life - there are plenty of competitors lining up, so why not give them a try?
As for "adsence being around for 2 years and a life ban maybe abit premature" well, it sure looks like thats the way it will endup being for me. And how do others feel? Are you in favor of a Lifetime ban for adsence affenders who have scraped?
Teeceo.
basically yes. having scraper sites was "all" that I was doing so, if it wasn't for that then what was it for?
How could anyone else answer this question for you? It sounds to me as if you are not very confident in the reason(s) you were banned. Furthermore it sounds like you are "suggesting" that there is a lifetime ban on your account based on the very limited email communication you have had with them.
IMO, you need to dig deeper for some facts..
Teeceo.
If I entered into a contract with you to sell a house and you moved in, making all kind of agreements and signing the terms of said contract. Then you moved in and immediately began to gut the house, leaving a ruined shell, after which I had to have you booted as you did not bother to make a payment. Suing you would not amount to anything as you may not have anything in which case I could probably get a dollar a month out of you.
In America there is no debtor's prison so you get away free----you think---My report on you will follow you for years, ruining any other contract you try to sign before you sign it. :)
So, there I am, broken contract and a house that is worthless. Do you think I would EVER do business with you again? NOOO, I would give you a lifetime ban.
Good going Google
Ann
Teeceo.
Suppose in 'real life' you were to be caught acquiring half a million dollars through illegal means (for scraping is a breach of international intellectual property laws).
As a minimum you'd be looking at repaying the half million, plus a fine. If you didn't have the cash, your assets would be seized. You could also be looking at a jail term.
And if the recent rise in incomes of quality sites is due to better exclusion of scraper sites from SERPs, this shows that your half million has come from original content publishers, represented by members of this forum.
Shouldn't this thread be entitled 'is a lifetime ban sufficient?'
Teeceo.
