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Smart Pricing fact

Smartpricing effects one page or whole site or ....

     
12:42 pm on Jul 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Hi Guys

Does SmartPricing effects certain pages only? or whole website? or a whole AdSense account?

I had a few tricky things going on a domain which earned me alot initially, but then Smart Pricing stopped my monkey business ;-)

Now the same domain has become a very very informative website and a very genuine one with many informative articles and everything SEOed and bla bla. And I am going to launch it on a good scale now. It will concentrate over AdSense and affiliates only - NO OTHER PURPOSE.

Should I change the domain and then launch it? Or is it okay to launch cause I have stopped malicious activities.

3:30 pm on July 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

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A GoogleTeam member confirmed to me that smartpricing impacts the entire account.

So if you have Adsense on several websites through one account and one of them gets smart priced, all your other websites will face the same penalty if they are under the same Adsense account.

The question is - is there a process to remove a smart pricing penalty once it has been assigned?

hunderdown

3:47 pm on July 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

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smart pricing is NOT a penalty that is assigned--that suggests human intervention. It's a discount for advertisers, and it is re-calculated monthly, or possibly even weekly, based on conversions and possibly other factors.

Relaunch. It may take a while for AdSense to recognize the changes, so leave it alone for a while once it's online.

3:59 pm on July 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

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but then Smart Pricing stopped my monkey business ;-)

Glad to know that smart pricing recognizes -- and discounts -- monkey business activities. Repent and sin no more! :o)

4:00 pm on July 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I wasn't saying that it was assigned by a human. I agree that smartpricing is a tool to help adword advertisers, by discounting advertising on the content network, that may not convert as well as on their search network.

My term of "penalty" was from the publisher's view point - if my account gets smart priced, then I get a lower payout on the clicks that come from the ads on my site.

Even if you do get refreshed, it seems consistent with how Google does other things, that Google keeps a history of an account and would keep a history of it being smart priced and that would carry weight in future evaluation of your site.

That's my guess (which could be wrong).

4:35 pm on July 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Some of my channels show much higher paying ads than other channels, so I think it's the keyword that plays a big part in the pricing. Don't forget, it can also be smart advertisers and combine them with smart pricing and we're doomed.
4:55 pm on July 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Smart pricing sounds like alternative to zero price. As soon as advertisers start swapping stats on conversions from different sites they might get a universal block list for those sites that don't convert.
6:08 pm on July 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"A GoogleTeam member confirmed to me that smartpricing impacts the entire account."

Not disputing that you were told this, but this could be extraordinarily inefficient in many cases.

6:20 pm on July 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

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As soon as advertisers start swapping stats on conversions from different sites they might get a universal block list for those sites that don't convert.

Even if there were a "universal block list" (which would be an enormous undertaking, and difficult to keep up to date), it wouldn't be very useful unless Google boosted the limit on blocked domains. Also, sites convert at different rates for different advertisers, so a "universal block list" might not offer any benefits over smart pricing.

It will be interesting to see whether Google gives more controls to CPC advertisers or whether site-targeted CPM ads will become the medium of choice for advertisers who want a say in where their ads appear.

2:57 pm on July 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

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A GoogleTeam member confirmed to me that smartpricing impacts the entire account.

That seems odd, given the number of people who say that different websites targeting the same keywords get different returns. If the entire account gets smartpriced, "blue widgets" should return the same average CPC across the account. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that things aren't lining up.

Tushar, launch the site and don't worry. My own site's revenues have a three- or four-week cycle, which I suspect is due to rapid fluctuations in my visitors' conversion rate. (I get few enough clicks that it doesn't take much to create a statistical spike.) If Adsense can re-smartprice my site twice over the course of a month, your site should get reevaluated quickly and do just fine.

3:37 pm on July 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

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A GoogleTeam member confirmed to me that smartpricing impacts the entire account.

CommonSense, I just wanted to clarify that you meant this as you wrote it.

If so, it is a pretty substantial piece of information. That question has been posted here several times and always faded as no one could say for sure.

3:53 pm on July 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

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A GoogleTeam member confirmed to me that smartpricing impacts the entire account.

Fortunately I've seen zero evidence of this. I have 20 some odd websites in my network and nearly 2 years with adsense on all of them. Some of these sites have obviously been smartpriced. Google was correct in doing so in my opinion and I weathered the loss in silence. Other sites of mine have suffered the ebb and flow of inconsistent earnings but have always eventually returned to previous levels. To subject an entire account to a set valuation based on the performance, or non-performance, of one or even a few of the websites involved would be quite wrong.

I believe google can tell the difference, but then I don't have the ear of any team members either so I suppose that in spite of the evidence I could be totally wrong.

4:55 pm on July 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

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To subject an entire account to a set valuation based on the performance, or non-performance, of one or even a few of the websites involved would be quite wrong.

Not necessarily. It all comes down to statistical probability, which is what smart pricing is all about. For example, if an accountholder has 19 sites that convert poorly, there's a good likelyhood that a 20th site will also convert poorly, and it isn't unreasonable for Google to grant an advertiser discount for that site until new (and more favorable) conversion data is available.

Also, smart pricing is only one piece of the earnings puzzle. Payout percentage could be another factor. Let's say that John Doe has 10 scraper sites and one useful site that's a labor of love. It would make perfect sense for Google to reduce the payout percentage for Mr. Doe's whole account (not just the 10 scraper sites) as a way of rewarding behavior that it likes and discouraging behavior that it dislikes.

It's unlikely that either smart pricing or the compensation formula are as simple as many forum members seem to believe. Why shouldn't smart pricing and the compensation formula be complex like Google's search algorithm? That way, Google can make life more difficult for competitors while protecting the interests of advertisers and promoting the types of content that it considers beneficial to Google Search, to users, and to the Web as a whole.

5:04 pm on July 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I agree that, knowing the way Google does things, smart pricing must be an enormously complex set of algorithms. IMO it is probably applied at the account level, at the domain level, and also at the individual page level.

It's supposedly partly based on the reason for matching ads to the page, so it could even vary ad by ad.

5:42 pm on July 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

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...until new (and more favorable) conversion data is available

you're convinced that it isn't? Available to whom?

5:57 pm on July 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

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If there is evidence that google does this - other than word of mouth which I have a tendency to discount in most cases - then I would love to see it. I would not be surprised if it were true. Google's non-disclosure of the really good stuff is well known and at all times a factor in attempting to decide how they actually do things. Especially when we don't know. I don't care to engage in idle speculation, mainly because it can reach too far and distract people from what is really at issue. A statement was made that smartpricing does in fact impact an entire account and was attributed to a "GoogleTeam member". For me this is the first time I've seen this sort of definitive statement with regard to this issue and I suppose I'm somewhat curious. Especially since I haven't seen it.

Or maybe I did see it and didn't know what I was looking at - with me that's always possible.

6:59 pm on July 16, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I don't care to engage in idle speculation

Google doesn't reveal the inner workings of smart pricing, so if you have no interest in hypotheses and possibilities, you've come to the wrong place. :-)

4:08 pm on July 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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...if you have no interest in hypotheses and possibilities, you've come to the wrong place. :-)

Oh, there's much more to be learned here than hypotheses and possibilities so I suppose I'm in the right place after all. I simply prefer facts.

To each his own, eh?

5:15 pm on July 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Well, you aren't going to find any new facts about smart pricing here. You will find plenty of teeth-gnashing and speculation.
3:35 pm on July 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

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wyweb, I don't have any knowledge of how smartpricing works. I just have my opinions. My opinion is

-That Google uses complex algos to calculate it
-For the most part, this algo is automated, but that there can be some human editor evaluation (especially in top ranking sites in competitive categories)
-Conversion data from ads on my site are compared against the performance of those ads on the search network
-There is a "performance discount multiplier" that is applied to an entire adsense account based upon the conversion of ads on your site vs the search network
- You can refresh your smartpricing discount multiplier, but Google keeps a history of your performance of your account.

For me, this has led me to:

- Ensure I have good, original content on my sites
- Make sure that all my sites that have adsense on them are good quality sites
- Stay away from black hat spammy techniques
- Focus on what can I provide that will really be of benefit

Like you said, my opinion is not fact-based, but just hypothetical. I could have it all wrong.

As far as who to believe, I have found that europeforvisitors postings have been very insightful and valuable to listen to.

4:11 pm on July 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Agreed. No one outside of Google knows how smart pricing is applied: to pages, sites, or accounts.

I wonder is adsense advisor would care to enlighten us on that? (a shot in the dark, whistling in the park, hoping for a ray of light or just a silly lark)

5:18 pm on July 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

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what is exactly smart pricing? Can someone explain please?

Thank you.

5:20 pm on July 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Here's Google's explanation of smart pricing (it's from April, 2004, when smart pricing was introduced):

[adwords.google.com...]

8:47 pm on July 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

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and this is July 2005
yeah...I've read that. It's good googlese. Generalized, vaguely specific examples that leave a lot to the imagination. Sounds like it was written to assure, or reassure adwords advertisers that their budget wasn't being squandered or misaligned. Protecting cashcows pays off.

wyweb, I don't have any knowledge of how smartpricing works.

I know. You threw me when you said google team member though. That's what got me to jump in here in the first place.

Oh well...

9:27 pm on July 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Erku asked what Smart Pricing was; Google's page has the answer. And yes, the information is general, because there's no reason why Google would or should reveal the inner workings of its smart-pricing (a.k.a. advertiser discount) formula.
9:40 pm on July 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

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But you have to admit only Google could pull off something as vague as smartpricing. In essence Google promises advertisers more value for their money by ensuring lowest cost per click as well as an automated program to estimate when and where conversions are likely to occur or not. Can you imagine buying a 30K car from a dealership and then just before you sign, the salesperson says, "oh and by the way, we have this super great guarantee that covers that new car. It costs 10% of the purchase price, it's a really great guarantee, but I can't tell you what it covers". Sometimes the business side of the internet really amazes me.
9:56 pm on July 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

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It costs 10% of the purchase price, it's a really great guarantee, but I can't tell you what it covers"

They've been doing it for ages in insurance business - you buy "cover" thinking you are covered, but they have such a huge list of exceptions that they keep in small print that insurance these days is not really an insurance: its the opportunity to put claim forward, subject to insurer's acception.

6:19 am on July 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I've told you all many times my pricing is all over the map but averages to between $0.15-$0.20 at the end of the day. I've seen $.80 and a little higher but the other day saw a whopping $4.50 for a single click, which is WAY more than anyone bids in my sector!

How 'smart' was that pricing?

6:52 am on July 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

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How 'smart' was that pricing?

I feel that that is very smart pricing. Most all content should be worth 4.50 a click imjo (in my jealous opinion)

2:37 pm on July 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Can you imagine buying a 30K car from a dealership ...

A better analogy would be airline fares, which can change from minute to minute--sometimes drastically--under the control of yield-management software.

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