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Google AdSense At Top of Page causing Bourbon Effect?

Yes, former UPS Club Member went broke in 3 days!

     
3:27 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I think someone on the Google News forum said having AdSense placed above the page fold (and above page keywords) may be a factor in causing pages to lose their Google search rankings in the Bourbon Update (like me). If that could be the case, any idea how one could "call" AdSense code to the top of the page visually but actually place the "call code" for it at the bottom of the page's HTML so the Google spider wouldn't read it first?

Perhaps some kind of <!--#include virtual="/code.txt" -->

I don't know if that would violate AdSense TOS but if someone here with more coding savvy could suggest the proper coding I'd sure email AdSense support and get their opinion.

Thanks,
Tom

3:30 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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There is nothing you are allowed to do to the code without breaching TOS sadly.

Are you convinced that the placement is causing this 'Bourbon Effect'?

3:39 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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My guess is that they were just caught. Crap content is the most likely explanation for the removal.
3:39 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Create a div on the top and on the bottom.. On the bottom put the adsense code.. Once the page loads, put the innertext or innerhtml of the bottom adsense div into the top div and remove the contents of the bottom div. I've done this when I thought MSN and Yahoo were dropping pages because of this...

This does stay within TOS as you are not modifying the code in any way. Just moving it.

3:42 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Put the adsense code in a div at the foot of the page.
Use absolute positioning to place it where you like on the page.
3:44 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Easy way to get around this is to use css absolute postioning. Have a div or paragraph block holding the adsense code at the bottom of the html, so all the relevant keyword content is first on the page.

Example: <p style="position:absolute;top:10px;left:10px"> ... adsense code ... </p>

Of course you would need to leave room for it in the html, but this block could be placed just before the closing body tag.

3:53 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I think your information is incorrect and you should keep your site like it is, with Adsense above the fold. I think EPC is affected by the page position, higher for above the fold ads, you could hurt yourself.

I have leaderboards on most of my pages and Bourbon update was VERY good to me.

4:04 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Yeah - I don't think AdSense has anything to do with it.

I've seen a site that doens't have AdSense get punished badly - and a site which has AdSense above the fold remain unaffected (or even slightly up).

4:06 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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IMHO:

Given the broad list of reasons why some sites have been hurt with the latest update (mine included), I think the position of adsense code in the page has got to be last when ranked by plausibility.

Don't the search engines ignore JavaScript anyway?

<added>
I think it is much more likely that Yahoo scrappers and dup contents filters have killed sites
<>

4:07 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Its easy to blame the other guy.

Before making any changes, take a look at your site with SEO in mind.

You might see something that's right under your nose.

4:10 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Your site doing poorly in Google has absolutely nothing to do with your AdSense placement
4:15 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Not blaming anybody, nor is my site a "scrapper" --
I was just trying to figure out why I've lost 3/4 of my traffic, that's all. I'm devastated, like lots of other legit webmasters who are hit hard by this latest update.
4:23 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I hear you man, it's tough to experience something like that. You really need to take a hard look around. It could be a combination of factors. Hard to give advice, it depends on your site.

RS_200_gto

4:56 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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changes = in google's control
updates =in google's control
websites titles = in google's control
up or down traffic = in google's control
website placement = in google's control
sandbox = in google's control
customer service = in google's control
response time = in google's control
making $$$ with google = in google's control
website owners = maybe in 10% control
5:25 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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changes = in google's control
updates =in google's control
websites titles = in google's control
up or down traffic = in google's control
website placement = in google's control
sandbox = in google's control
customer service = in google's control
response time = in google's control
making $$$ with google = in google's control
website owners = maybe in 10% control

Choosing to ignore Google's nonsense = in YOUR control
Adding quality content for your visitors to enjoy = in YOUR control
Choosing the phrases to build your content around in order to attract the most visitors = in YOUR control

Before some Google sycophant tries to edify me by explaining how they provide the most search traffic, I haven't given a flip about Google's SERPs for months and I do just fine from a steady flow from Y and MSN. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have first-page rankings for my competitive search terms at the Big G, but you gotta FREE YOUR MIND at some point and stop CARING so much about it.

The whole key to this is to build content pages around terms that are actually searched for at the major engines a significant number of times on a daily basis. Over time, you'll find that you get great traffic that is highly targeted from private links and Y, MSN, and all the lesser engines.

So many people focus all of their energy on their homepage, but I find that most of my sites get 75% of their traffic from visits that begin on an interior page. Build your websites with a smart strategy and what G does begins to matter less and less.

5:37 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Amen, Swebbie.
5:45 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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The whole key to this is to build content pages around terms that are actually searched for at the major engines a significant number of times on a daily basis. Over time, you'll find that you get great traffic that is highly targeted from private links and Y, MSN, and all the lesser engines.

That's good advice, but it doesn't change the fact that Google is by far the #1 search engine, and taking a "Who needs Google?" attitude is like leaving money on the table.

5:52 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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The discussion about adsense came up because of a discussion about iframes and large amounts of popups/popunders on sites may cause penalties. That is all.

Many webmasters have lost everything in the last update or the update before. Good clean sites. Even large authorities that I have seen. SO in order to find some sort of solution there have been discussions throwing in all different theories and experiences so that webmasters have something to compare. Webmasters have to learn not jump the gun looking for a quick fix!

P.S. Yes you can add as much content as you want but if you don't do it in a way that search engines like you may not be able to tap into the visitor rich search market for your topic. Keeping google at 4% of you site's traffic is a hard thing to do especially when you rank well for about any page you add to your site. It is easier to keep google at %4 of your total incoming traffic when you get 400 visitors from them. BUT if google lands on your side, keepig google at 4% of your visitors when they decide to give you 750,000-1,000,000 visitors is a hell of a thing to do.

6:01 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"That's good advice, but it doesn't change the fact that Google is by far the #1 search engine, and taking a "Who needs Google?" attitude is like leaving money on the table."

I didn't see your post EFV but you are right. Learn to survive without it but TAP INTO IT whenever POSSIBLE! It is similar to advertising on tv but not having to pay for it. IF you can DO IT!

Those webmasters who took a beating are trying to figure out a way to tap back into it. IF there is a PROBLEM with your site adding content won't get the job done but FINDING the problem and taking care of it will.

6:06 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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I like the "who needs Google" attitude and enjoy working by this motto. They've never sent me a million, but I've seen a couple hundred thousand in a month. I'll get my own million.
6:15 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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"I'll get my own million"

Sure enough.

Be sure to take 3 million from the google search market 3 million from Y! MSN markets at the same time. Build some links and what not for the one million.

But take them all away! Can your site(s) survive on brand alone? Right there is your survival question!

6:20 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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taking a "Who needs Google?" attitude is like leaving money on the table.

The point I was driving at (without ever writing it in so many words) is that what you do with your precious time is the real issue. How many webmasters spend hours every week trying to tease out the latest Google incarnation? I take the view that I'd rather give my visitors something new and worthwhile to read than spend that hour or two yanking out clumps of my remaining hair in angst over the latest Google affront.

Yes, there will be fewer of those readers if my pages never achieve the Holy Grail of a high ranking at G, but meanwhile, more and more quality pages start ranking nicely at Y and MSN and the little fish. I realize it's a matter of degrees, and it's easy to get used to the relative comfort of a living made from organic G traffic. But that's a double-edged sword, would you not agree? Just look at the near-suicidal reactions by many to this latest Google rebirth.

6:23 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Create a div on the top and on the bottom.. On the bottom put the adsense code.. Once the page loads, put the innertext or innerhtml of the bottom adsense div into the top div and remove the contents of the bottom div.

And You had a terrible low CTR, because the innerHTML transfer causes a reload of the ad

6:30 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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If you truely had the "who cares about google" attitude then disallow them from your site. It is a hard thing not to care about some of that free traffic whether it be a few visitors to many articles or thousands to one page.

I seen how you lit up spacy when you got your #1. I seen how you enjoyed the money you started to make. But go ahead and try to disallow the bot and you will notice that you do care!

6:49 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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How do I stop receiving email notifications? Suddenly my inbox is full of replies not only to this thread but others in the AdSense Forum?

Help?

Tom

6:51 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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See what you started!
7:06 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Yes, my sites can survive on brand alone. I found that out over the past few months when I was stuck getting visitors on my own. Of course, I was also eating beans and rice. :( ... didn't want to touch money buried in my back yard since before the last Google update...
7:30 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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Google's Bourbon Algo snippets:

searchforX/adwordssite>$300/month#1rank

searchforX/adwordssite<$300/month#2-20rank

searchforX/non-adwordssite-150positions

searchforX/non-adwordssite+adsensepublisher-250positions

searchforX/scraper,scammer,thiefsite=i'mfeelinglucky

searchforX/adsensepublishersaysbadaboutgoogle=nocheckforyou.

7:53 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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way to go rick, i asked about this in another thread cant they auto boost us good publishers? would be nice

it makes sense...........doesnt it?

8:28 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

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<Don't the search engines ignore JavaScript anyway?>

Great question,
I've been meaning to check up on this as i forgot what i had read about it but...

If i remember correctly only the first 200 or so lines in a page really matter and lines of javascript do count in that. I use a .js to be safe.
Could someone elaborate on this or confirm it?

This 57 message thread spans 2 pages: 57