Forum Moderators: martinibuster
This isn't just an idle question. I suspect that it affects many of us here. I know people that say that they are well into the UPS club but not a Premium Member because they don't get enough impressions. What gives?
M
How would defining "premium partner" status by revenues benefit Google? Once publishers are making good money in the program, they don't need to be recruited with guaranteed revenues during a honeymoon period, CPM compensation, or other incentives. Members of the UPS Club aren't going to walk away from their monthly AdSense checks just because they covet "premium partner" status.
Of course, when Yahoo launches its contextual-advertising network, Google may take a cue from affiliate-program managers and look for ways to retain publishers that it doesn't want to lose (such as members of the UPS Club).
Of course, when Yahoo launches its contextual-advertising network, Google may take a cue from affiliate-program managers and look for ways to retain publishers that it doesn't want to lose (such as members of the UPS Club).
Things like that are exacly my point. Google is alienating some UPS members by saying "So what if you guys are making that much -- we still don't think you deserve the tools and support that Premium members enjoy."
Especially with the imminent start of HooSense, that seems to be a very bad attitude.
The only way to find it out is to test it.
Should Goolge write after some days, because of Your poor CPM, You are not not premium member anymore, we reduce You to a normal member?
The application screen is for new publishers. They need a decision to apply to the premium program or not. All they know are their impressions.
You have a valid point for new applicants, but I think that many people get invited to be Premium members once Google sees how their site is performing. Why can that invite not be based upon large $$ instead of just large impressions?
Premium AdSense service available if your site receives 5 million+ search queries or 20 million+ content page views a month.
So in a sense someone may have 20 million impressions and still not get in. Because they are not content page views at all, impressions are how many times an ad space appears.
Just change the language at the Google Adsense start page.
I wondered why You write always about 20 million page views. It's only 10 million, but only for not english publishers.
Probably because this is an English-language site, and most Webmaster World members don't visit non-English AdSense pages.
BTW, the "premium partner" minimum is only 5 million impressions for search pages (as opposed to content pages).
I know if I was in that situation, that would be a big motivator for me to take a hard look at HooSense.
And risk losing an existing cash cow the size of Paul Bunyan's ox?
And risk losing an existing cash cow the size of Paul Bunyan's ox?
No. It's not risking anything. I try HooSense on some pages and AdSense on others, or I alternate them, and I see which makes more money. You are assuming that AdSense is going to make more money for everyone than HooSense is. It is almost certain that that will be true for some, and not true for others. Which means that, if they try HooSense, at least some will defect to it. So, Google's goal at this point, IMHO, should be to create value with publishers via better responsiveness, better tools, etc, to prevent people from ever feeling the need to try HooSense, or from feeling that it isn't worth moving to HooSense if it is only slightly more profitable than AdSense. Of course, some people are going to try both regardless, and some people are going to switch no matter what you do if the other program makes substantially more money. But, shouldn't they at least do what they can to try and retain those publishers that might be on the fence? And keep in mind that we are not talking about small publishers here. If you have a decent CPM, you can make $500,000+/year and still not be a Premium member. You can argue about what is "small" to Google, but no business would want to throw that much money away when they could have provided the person with a nicer interface (which already exists, and so there is no development cost), and a tiny fraction of one full-time equivalent for their dedicated point of contact (cost to Google must be << $5,000/year unless each rep serves only a handful of accounts, which I doubt).
I guess I am perplexed that anyone would even argue about this. The bottom line is this: Google has already developed the Premium tools, and already has the Premium processes and personnel in place. Compared to the revenue that these "grey-area" members bring in, allowing them to become Premium members is virtually free for Google. Competition is coming. Do you really think it makes sense for Google to continue to treat these members like they are second-rate accounts?
You are assuming that AdSense is going to make more money for everyone than HooSense is.
No, I'm assuming that people who are making a ton of money from AdSense are unlikely to defect without reasons that are more compelling than "I'm miffed because I don't get to be a premium partner like NYTimes.com."
So, Google's goal at this point, IMHO, should be to create value with publishers via better responsiveness, better tools, etc, to prevent people from ever feeling the need to try HooSense, or from feeling that it isn't worth moving to HooSense if it is only slightly more profitable than AdSense.
It's early days yet. I doubt if Google will sit back quietly while Yahoo cherry-picks its network. We don't know what Yahoo will offer or what Google will do to protect its publisher base. (I do think it isn't entirely unreasonable for Google to let Yahoo make the first move, since that will allow Google to upstage Yahoo instead of being upstaged by Yahoo.)
Do you really think it makes sense for Google to continue to treat these members like they are second-rate accounts?
Why are you so sure that Google doesn't make exceptions?
Do you have some insider knowledge that Google hasn't invited any high dollar earning accounts into the Premium Publisher program.
It could be that some of the higher dollar earning accounts earn more OUTSIDE of the Premium Publisher plan, so they choose to stay there.
I know that part of the Premium Publisher plan is getting paid on a flat CPM basis (which is good for large news sites with a broad audience), if I was making more on a CPC basis, I wouldn't want to be "Premium" (whatever that actually means).
What exactly are you missing out on by not being a Premium Publisher?
I think the name alone is giving off some false impression that just being in the program will give you magical button to double your earnings.
So basically, it doesn't go on impressions or content views if you are already in the service since they already know the how much cash your site can bring. However, if you are not in the service then you need to provide them with information on how many content views your pages will receive.
First, yes, I do have at least anecdotal information that Google does not regularly make exceptions, because I know several people in the UPS club that are not Premium members. I have never heard anyone say that they have been invited to be a Premium member based on earnings rather than impressions. That is not to say that it doesn't happen -- only that the evidence that I have seems to say it must be infrequent.
Second, while I don't think that being a Premium member gives you a magical button to double your earnings, I do think that the extra tools and services you get as a Premium member (hints, blocking by keywords, someone to actually speak to if you have a question or concern) have value. And, I would not doubt that the keyword hints function can positively impact the bottom line. Ad targeting is a topic that is brought up around here all the time: If your targeting is off, your CTR goes into the toilet. As a regular member you can't do anything about that except wait until the algorithm figures out that it has made a mistake. As a Premium member you have at least some degree of control over that. So while it isn't a magic button, yes, to some extent I think being a Premium member helps you make more money.
Finally, you state that Premium members are paid a flat CPM. I don't think that is true. I think some Premium members may negotiate that with Google, but I think the average Premium member gets paid under the same system as a normal member (though some people claim that the revenue split is more favorable for Premium members -- and it that is true, there's another reason that becoming a Premium member allows you to make more money).
First, yes, I do have at least anecdotal information that Google does not regularly make exceptions, because I know several people in the UPS club that are not Premium members.
Being rich doesn't necessarily get you invited into the country club. :-) Google's standards for "premium partner" may involve more than just impressions or earnings.
And, I would not doubt that the keyword hints function can positively impact the bottom line.
I can understand why Google might not want to let keyword hints fall into just any high-earning publisher's hands until there's a mechanism in place to prevent their abuse.
Finally, you state that Premium members are paid a flat CPM. I don't think that is true. I think some Premium members may negotiate that with Google...
That's pretty much what Rodney said.
some people claim that the revenue split is more favorable for Premium members -- and it that is true, there's another reason that becoming a Premium member allows you to make more money.
Who's to say that the revenue split isn't already more favorable for high-earning members who aren't premium partners?
Also, if Google chooses to negotiate with some high-revenue publishers, it can do so whether or not they have "premium partner" next to their names.
One more thought: As regular AdSense members, we have the right to quit at any time (for example, if Yahoo comes along and sweet-talks us, or if we get tired of seeing ads for "little blue pills" on a site about the Blue Lagoon). I'd guess that many if not most premium partners are locked into contracts with Google in return for CPM payment, guaranteed revenues, or whatever. So it may not be an entirely unmixed blessing to be a high-earning member who doesn't get to wear an "AdSense Premium Partner" t-shirt.
I'd guess that many if not most premium partners are locked into contracts with Google in return for CPM payment, guaranteed revenues, or whatever.
From your wording I am assuming that that is complete speculation. If not, yes, that would be a big factor to me not wanting to become a Premium member. Otherwise, there is no downside to it.
From your wording I am assuming that that is complete speculation.
I can think of one example off the top of my head: Google's distribution and revenue-sharing agreement with About.com, which was signed in 2003 and won't expire until fall of 2007.
Was just right now on the web site of the greatest Austrian newspaper and found below an article about a cirminal
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Did You also ask for individual ad sizes? Instead of 120x240 125x125, I would like to have
140 width and as high as necessary to show 1,2,3 ads
I have a small targeting problem.
At a page about the menu of an restaurant
are ads about javascript menus.
But it would not be usefull to block them,
because I have also pages about software,
where this ads would be good targeted.
The premium program seems to be reserved for sites that are high volume and have horrible targetting. From what i've heard a good portion of sites who joined the premium program made less money.
That's what I've always figured. On a newspaper site, a huge percentage of the ad units must be throwaways. (How many people are going to see a compelling ad in a news story about violence in Iraq or local tax policy in Northern Virginia?)
