Forum Moderators: martinibuster
1. I fill out an application for Google's AdSense Gold Program.
2. I pay a moderate fee, say $30-50 or even up to a hundred, depending on the success of the program.
3. Google sends someone to hand check every one of my sites with AdSense to check for the slightest infringment of their rules, any spam at all. If G says no, it means no. Cannot re-apply for six months.
4. Google checks my stats record to ensure I have had at least 6 months of "clean" AdSense usage (no new participants allowed...must have six months in basic adsense first)
5. I am not allowed to add code to ANY other site unless G have confirmed its acceptability. Any infringment of this at all and I go back to basic adsense.
6. Participation in AdSense Gold means:
- customised ad-formats
- direct debit payments possible
- helper words for ad targetting
- payment in euros and pounds possible
- suspicion of fraudulent clicks results in account freeze for seven days, hand review of site, then re-commencement. No monies withheld.
7. New AdWords category added "show ads on AdSense Gold sites" for ad publishers. Possibly even divided into 10/12 basic categories: Education, News, Technology, Sports, Entertainment, etc, etc
am I dreaming?
BTW, I disagree with Blaze's suggestion that advertisers care only about conversion (not about where their ads appear). That simply isn't true of the kinds of advertisers that Google needs to reach, for two reasons:
1) Many such advertisers are looking for leads, not e-commerce purchases, which makes true conversion tracking more difficult and less accurate; and...
2) If an advertiser won't buy into Google's content network because of quality concerns, the advertiser won't know how well ads convert.
Mind you, that doesn't mean conversion might not be taken into account by an "AdSense Gold" or "AdSense Select" program. But it's likely that conversion would be only one of several judging criteria.
Finally, if Google doesn't come up with something like this, a competitor (or maybe more than one competitor, including competitors in vertical markets) almost surely will.
Somebody has to come up with a better AW clone first. Anybody can come up with an AS clone but nobody will join becasue it won't pay well. OV does not seem like they are ever going to come up with one.
We'll see. If they limit their "content ad" venues to general-interest news/entertainment/portal sites, they'll be leaving billions of direct-response ad dollars on the table.
G knows they could just only go after big clients but they don't.
Who ever suggested that Google should "only go after big clients"?
Just because you don't like the way things are does not mean that the majority does not. What you think does not matter.
And what you think does? :-)
The real question is what advertisers who aren't buying now think. (Not to mention stockholders, who won't be happy if Google fails to leverage its ad-targeting technology in the larger advertising marketplace.)
If AS was such a failure then why are some of us making so much money.
Who said AdSense is a failure?
I make more every week because I put a lot of work in it and I promise you would lable me a spammer if you saw my sites. (G does not I got emails to prove it.)
And how is that going to convince a media buyer at J. Walter Thompson or a direct-media planner at Rapp Collins to buy ads on Google's content network?
This discussion isn't about you or me, or about your monthly income (which is nobody's business but yours); it's about the larger picture of how Google's content network is likely to expand, diversify, and attract a larger variety of advertisers over the next few years. If there's one thing we can be sure of, it's that the Web--and Google's content network--will continue to evolve.
I like your idea. We have talked about some sort of "Gold" AS program and I certainly would pay a "moderate fee" to participate.
What is the point of creating seperate categories, should the whole programme not be of a high standard? Why should someone that is bringing Google in money have to pay for what is now basic features on the latest affiliate networks?
I just hope some big company shocks us all with an Adsense-esque programme within the next year that has all these features, and is in general better than Google. A bit of competition is definately needed.
What is the point of creating seperate categories, should the whole programme not be of a high standard?
Some advertisers are picky about where their ads run; others aren't. The current run-of-network approach puts an advertiser's text ads on everything from editorial sites to gmail to parked domains, and that may be fine for traditional PPC advertisers who care only about conversion and who are lucky enough to get good results. An "AdSense Gold" or "AdSense Select" subset of the network would appeal to mainstream advertisers who are willing to pay more for greater control over where their ads appear. (There's nothing new about this concept; it's been used in offline media for decades.)
The result would be more ads for AdSense Gold publishers. AdWords in the engine that feeds AdSense. Any competitors have to first set up a mechanism to supply the ads...otherwise, they can have all the innovations and bells and whistles they like: without the advertisers, it won't get off the ground.
Any competitors have to first set up a mechanism to supply the ads...otherwise, they can have all the innovations and bells and whistles they like: without the advertisers, it won't get off the ground.
I think Google could encounter some very strong competitors in industries like travel where existing IT service providers, trade publishers, etc. have a lot more "top of mind awareness" than Google does. All that's needed is a good OEM provider.
They are happy with the way things are.
We'll see. Somehow I find it difficult to believe that Google will settle for the tiny share of the advertising market that it has right now, especially after the IPO. Still, if Google chooses not to expand beyond its current run-of-network content offering, we can be certain that other companies will step up to the plate. Demand will drive the market, and there's going to be plenty of demand for contextual advertising that offers the kind of quality and controls which advertisers have come to expect in traditional media.
If anything they may change things in the spammers favor.
whoa! post this in the adwords forum and see what they have to say.
Google should be doing this anyways. They are slowly becoming the same as all the other fly by night ad services.
Google needs to get their act together already, we have been harping about the same stuff for months, and they still have not done anything. Google is not interested in adding features we want they want to keep costs very low and turn more profit, end of story.
I am counting the days until I can switch over to Microsoft WindowsSENSE!
Search results are terrible, adsense features are god awful, and we still have to go to the bank to deposit our checks. Google is going to get slapped in the face real hard soon and I hope they show it on CNN.
Google needs to get their act together already, we have been harping about the same stuff for months, and they still have not done anything. Google is not interested in adding features we want they want to keep costs very low and turn more profit, end of story.
Actually, they've made a number of changes to the program already. Some have been cosmetic (reporting tools, publisher control over ad colors, new formats). Others have been more significant, such as "smart pricing" (to make the content network more attractive to advertisers) and "image ads" (to expand AdSense's base from traditional PPC advertisers to mainstream advertisers and ad agencies). I don't know why anyone would think that the network will stop evolving, especially with Google having such a small share of the online advertising market.
we still have to go to the bank to deposit our checks.
You're lucky for having checks to deposit each month!
Actually, they've made a number of changes to the program already. Some have been cosmetic (reporting tools, publisher control over ad colors, new formats). Others have been more significant, such as "smart pricing" (to make the content network more attractive to advertisers) and "image ads" (to expand AdSense's base from traditional PPC advertisers to mainstream advertisers and ad agencies). I don't know why anyone would think that the network will stop evolving, especially with Google having such a small share of the online advertising market.
Actually, image ads have been around for some time now. I could give two $hits about how my payment history page looks, that means nothing to me, the old way was fine, and it was easier to read as well.
Smart pricing does not effect adsense publishers, as we did not know what we were getting paid originally, so we have nothing to compare any smart pricing data with. So, smart pricing cannot be distinguished from other regular changes in payouts, you have no way of knowing, and either does any other adsense publisher.
I don't know where you pulled the "stop evoloving" thing from, but even that means nothing. Adsense needs to be adding more features to KEEP UP WITH other advertising programs. Other companies direct deposit and are much less secretive with the people making them money, Google continues to treat things in a communist manner and STILL no direct deposit. The fact that adsense is so small is more the reason to add features to attract more people.
Cosmetic changes to a website that i spend no more than 2 minutes on per week means nothing to me, and means nothing to people who are more interested in getting more out of the program. I make a ton with adsense, and all they do is send me a fedex on good months, still no individual to contact with questions, still no basic communication from adsense to me. I want direct deposit, not a new feature to check my past payments, if you think that is a worthwhile change you spend way to much time on the adsense site. I make lots of money for google, as do all of us here, and i expect a little more in return. If a ad company with similar payouts to adsense pops up overnight, but has things like direct deposit and better payouts for premium publishers, you bet I would make the change right away. Right now with ad programs you have to pick the lesser of two evils, good payouts with adsense but horrible communication and no direct deposit, or direct deposit, account handlers, but lower earnings per click. I am waiting for Microsoft to come along with high payouts with account managers and direct deposit, I would be honored to make them money.
Actually, image ads have been around for some time now.
Only for several months. AdSense has been around for more than a year.
Smart pricing does not effect adsense publishers
Are you saying that most publishers didn't see a change (for the better or worse) after smart pricing was introduced in early April?
I don't know where you pulled the "stop evoloving" thing from
You're the one who wrote: "Google is not interested in adding features we want they want to keep costs very low and turn more profit, end of story."
Google continues to treat things in a communist manner
I this is the first time I've seen Red-baiting on Webmaster World. :-)
The fact that adsense is so small is more the reason to add features to attract more people.
More publishers, or more advertisers? I suspect that Google needs the latter more than the former these days.
I am waiting for Microsoft to come along with high payouts with account managers and direct deposit, I would be honored to make them money.
Having spent 4-1/2 years as a contractor for MSN, I'm skeptical about Microsoft's ability to beat Google at its own game. Still, more power to them if they try--and to anyone else who can offer a competitive product.
BTW, what publishers want or need (direct deposit, account managers, etc.) isn't really the focus of this thread. The reason for an "AdSense Gold" or "AdSense Select" subset of the network wouldn't be to make publishers happy; it would be to attract and retain more advertisers.
Actually, image ads have been around for some time now.Only for several months. AdSense has been around for more than a year.
I have been with adsense for just over a year now, a few months ago when image ads were added would represent near 10% of adsenses life. Image ads in my own instance, and i am sure some others here, have lead to a lower CTR. I found that visitors were already blind to image banners and other image ads.
Are you saying that most publishers didn't see a change (for the better or worse) after smart pricing was introduced in early April?
Just because you saw a change does not mean you can attribute it to smart pricing. Adsense payouts have been thought for some time to be changing on a day to day basis. Unless you know other factors, such as day to day fluctuations, you cannot simply say that because we saw changes those were smart pricing. Maybe i was not effected by smartpricing, but my regular adsense payouts increased slightly? You do not know the other variables involved, no one does, just because you may have seen a change in your earnings does not mean you can attribute that to a pricing scheme that you do not know what the changes were and also did not know what other changes may have been taking place. Saying smart pricing was the reason for change in x month on x day would be nothing more than a guess with no known variables.
You're the one who wrote: "Google is not interested in adding features we want they want to keep costs very low and turn more profit, end of story."
I should have been a little more less 5th gradish in my statement!
Google has not added these features, as they are either,
1. lazy
2. want to put manpower to other projects.
I would guess 2. They do not want to hire more employees to take personal care of publishers, they do not want to hire more programmers to make google.com/adsense the most sexy page on the web, they want to keep margins nice and high for those pre IPO figures that flash up on CNBC, Bloomberg, CNNfn, CNBC W, whatever. Less employees, less FIXED overhead, more likley advertiser earnings go right to net income.
At this point, it is obvious that publishers (like you and me) like adsense for the payouts, and not the direct deposit and personal white glove service we get. Google understands this, and also understands that it can forgo making new features like that available at the cost of publishers. We are still here! Direct deposit alone is not going to make me switch, i like google for the payouts. This is a perfect case of evolution at work. Google realizes right now that it is operating in great shape and needs not to change in a way to better coexist with the environment. If people were leaving becuase of lack of features, they would change to add those features and keep us around. By not "evolving" (I really do not like that word i still remember to this day my high school bio teacher yelling at anyone who did not spend an hour justifying the use of that word whenever it was used), Google is showing us that it feels it is in great shape to compete with other advertising entities.
I this is the first time I've seen Red-baiting on Webmaster World. :-)
I hope for many more to come!
More publishers, or more advertisers? I suspect that Google needs the latter more than the former these days.
Google would love more of both. Chances are that for some popular keywords they have an abundance of advertisers and not enough publishers. For other keywords, reverse it, not enough advertisers and more publishers.
Having spent 4-1/2 years as a contractor for MSN, I'm skeptical about Microsoft's ability to beat Google at its own game. Still, more power to them if they try--and to anyone else who can offer a competitive product.
You may have more of an inside view with this one, but as a member of the financial industry, Microsoft is always scouting out new areas to expand. They have the capital to make it happen, and certainly the brand name to back it up. MSN does not = search to you or me right now, but who knows. In my opinion, google is doing a real piss poor job of its main product right now, that of S E A R C H. (Remember Google, you are a SEARCH company, not a shopping or advertising network, but a search engine). I have never seen SEPRS loaded with so much crap. I see more results in the serps for SERPS of pages with my content in them. And i usually see adsense on these pages. The google internet is turning into a junkyard of photocopies, and they seem to not be willing to do anything about it.
BTW, what publishers want or need (direct deposit, account managers, etc.) isn't really the focus of this thread. The reason for an "AdSense Gold" or "AdSense Select" subset of the network wouldn't be to make publishers happy; it would be to attract and retain more advertisers.
Was this a mis-type?! This whole idea is tailored for ADSENSE PUBLISHERS.
At last glance, this was the adsense forum, adwords topics are for another area. The "Adsense Gold" or "Adsense Select" program, as outlined in post#1, is about features that ADSENSE publishers would recieve for a fee. This thread has nothing at all to do with what adwords advertisers want or need, they have their own forum. I am not sure how a publisher having direct deposit would attract more adwords publishers at all...................
This whole topic is clearly about adsense publishers and not adwords advertisers. If you want to talk adwords, i suggest you go to that forum, some great reading over there (if you are into that sort of thing)
Maybe Google will introduce something like this; maybe it won't. If Google doesn't, a competitor will. The idea is good for advertisers, and in the long run it will also be good for publishers, because the network that offers a "quality guarantee" and/or greater advertiser controls will attract mainstream corporate advertisers and ad agencies.
More big-budget advertisers = more competition for quality ad venues = higher bids. That's why I think Google will follow the money, which is on Madison Avenue and not just on Main Street.
In a nutshell,
1. No these features should be in adsense already this idea should be in place, but it should be free.
2. Adsense already says they "quality control" sites by needing approval for accounts and actively seeking out new websites and checking them. They obviously do not do this, pleanty of crap sites are out there that we have all reported, they are alive and well, adsense on all of them.
3. Adsense needs to make better chicken salad out of the chicken **** they have on their hands. They can better patrol sites.
4. Advertisers would not see any new adwords/adsense any different. Google already says the sites are reviewed and all that. If things are "smart priced" like many think, things are based on conversion anyways, and the end result does not take into account if it was on a shoddy site or a great site, the end result is the same.
5. Google needs to work much harder to make a better product. Right now Google serps look like a college computer class coding project, not a company that wants to raise billions out of our pocket. SERPS are a joke, and so are the lack of features on adsense.
Although many other programs have such features, none of them have the payouts of google. Right now i would take payouts over direct deposit, but if the chance for both was right in front of my face, i am changing overnight.
Get it together adsense, or someone else will, and you bet as soon as they do many people will drop you real real fast in favor of a company that is more interested in working with publishers than dictating down to them threats.
It doesn't matter that they would get paid $30-$50 for what's less than an hours work. Google indicated that they're looking for risky gambles that should pay off big time.
IIRC, Google already has conversion tracking. With that type of data, it should be easy (er, possible) to automate something liks this... Sites that never convert simply get dumped, the rest get paid in function of their conversions. Even a few sites using such a tool would provide enough information for making decisions, and that will separate the wheat from the chaff... and hopefully the chaff will disappear from the SERPS once their revenues dry up as they are forced to put some effort into something else.
As for alternatives, I think that may be happenning soon. Google had PageRank as meta-information, and I think Adsense is suffering because it's trying to get too much information from the page itself (as we've seen from all the humorous mistargetting). If someone can figure out how to serve more targetted ads, they'll make a mint.
From Adsense page
Premium service
If your site receives more than 5 million search queries or 20 million content page views a month, our sales team can help customize the AdSense program for your business
Google already has a program like this. Called their "Premium Service".
That's a different animal entirely. It's geared to large general-interest news/entertainment and portal sites, which generate a lot of impressions but have limited reach in the niches (both consumer and B2B) that generate high bids and conversion rates.
Google already has conversion tracking. With that type of data, it should be easy (er, possible) to automate something liks this.
It isn't that simple. Conversion rates, smart pricing, etc. are meaningless to advertisers who are skeptical about even trying AdSense. And some advertisers--especially mainstream corporate advertisers and their ad agencies--don't want their ads running on just any site.
Perhaps this is something that would have to be done in a distributed by advertisers? Give them the option to not be listed on some sites, and if enough advertisers don't want you, then...
Not terribly elegant, though :(
Does anyone have any real proof of this, or is it just a hunch?
"Advertisers don't want thier ads running on just any site".
There has been several posters here and at the Adwords forum who have said that they turned off the content network part of their Adwords because they don't want their ads to show in sites they consider "less desirable." Do a site search and you will find the various posts.
A common saying on this board is that "Advertisers don't want thier ads running on just any site".
Does anyone have any real proof of this, or is it just a hunch?
I'm the person who's made that statement most often. The statement is based on long experience in working in and for advertising agencies with consumer and B2B accounts that have ranged from huge corporations to established midsized companies.
The Aff I work for seem to love my traffic from my junk sites. They send me large checks.
What does that have to do with the discussion at hand? We aren't talking about affiliate programs (which, in any case, risk nothing by getting traffic from junk sites because they pay only on conversion). We aren't even talking about the existing PPC market (although some advertisers in that market are justifiably leery of the current AdSense network). We're talking about steps that Google can take to reach the much larger advertising market. Here's a description of that market that I wrote in the "'Made for AdSense' sites" thread:
"According to Jupiter Research, online ad spending in 2003 was a mere 3.5% of offline ad spending. In 2004, paid search is expected to grow 35% to $2.6 billion, or barely more than 1% of total U.S. advertising expenditures. There's a huge upside potential for PPC advertising, but it won't be realized if the online ad networks fail to deliver the targeted audiences (not just targeted keywords) and controls that advertisers expect and receive from traditional media outlets."
