Forum Moderators: martinibuster
Just over the past month, a month which I violated the number one rule of being a publisher, I added not a single page of content and not a single request for backlinks. I did nothing for my main site.
Simply searching for the sites name, I see over 30% more results in Google SERPS. After the top three or four (which are pages on my site), I see nothing but these sites that use Google to generate SERPs, and then tack adsense on them. 99/100 of these sites I have seen are showing adsense on them.
Everyone with a webpage that is in the SERPs is making money for other low life’s. These pages provided no value to anyone. They are not a good collection of links, but the same results as a Google serp would give anyone.
After emailing a few of these useless webmasters, I was told a couple times that if I wanted my site to be removed, I would have to be removed from Google and not show up in the SERPs.
These sites are doing nothing but clogging up the SERPs, making money off of our sites, and using adsense in a way that violates the TOS.
Does Google even check sites that are applying to adsense? I know 30 people will reply and say "they are probably using other sites to get accepted yadda yadda yadda", that’s fine we all know that. Does Google bother checking any sites that are giving requests for adsense? Do Google employees do a single thing to actively seek out new sites that are using adsense on existing accounts and ensure they are abiding by the rules? Has Google completely lost any and all control of the adsense program and who is using it?
One could very easily search around the internet and find more sites using adsense that violate the TOS than actually are worthwhile publishers.
I see all of these garbage sites and not only is my image of Google tarnished, it shows me that they have no control whatsoever over who is using adsense. Of the couple of these I have reported to adsense, all of them are still alive and well showing targeted ads. Adsense is not doing anything about it.
So, Adsense Advisor, what is the adsense department doing to control the wildfire of poor publishers out there? No doubt these sites are raking in thousands of dollars a day, as they corner the SERPS with every and all search phrase you could think of. Who is responsible for ensuring additional sites are up to par?
I am becoming ashamed that my site even has mention of the Google name with all these garbage sites making adsense look like a circus act.
I would hope adsense get their act together and gets to work combating the fraud that has plagued adsense. It is obvious Google is more concerned with quantity over quality at this point.
I bet there are some simple patterns Google uses to catch these guys. The scammers start out by making some small, earnest site. They apply, get accepted, and then use the code on a much larger, spammy site. How hard would that be to catch that?
Here are some recent threads on this subject:
AdSense & copyright infringement: If the publisher is the infringer... [webmasterworld.com]
People using my content to make Adsense money: Is this Evil? [webmasterworld.com]
Don't forget that Google may not be aware of the specific sites you mention, however, I am not sure if they are exactly in violation of the TOS, since often "snippets" fall under fair use. If you do follow through with Google on this, let us know what the result is.
They apply, get accepted, and then use the code on a much larger, spammy site. How hard would that be to catch that?
Every URL that is added to an account does get quality checked, however there is a definite delay factor (4-6 weeks, I believe). I do wonder if this could be worked around by having the index page "clean" while subpages and directories are spammy.
Every URL that is added to an account does get quality checked,
Every URL?
Or do you mean every site?
As a side note: If you find your own search result snippet on one of these pages send them a notice stating that you believe that they are violating your trademark and creating market confusion. In my experience they'll remove references to your site rather than go to the trouble of contesting anything.
Anyone can use a snippet from my site anytime they want as long as a link is included.
When it doesn't work out that way, when Google searches give you crappy, saved Google searches with Google advertising on the side, which Google-SEO people like because Google crap helps their positioning, well, that's sad. And, in the end, we're all losers for it.
I am not sure if they are exactly in violation of the TOS, since often "snippets" fall under fair use.
Remember, the Google program policies forbid sites that were created for the purpose of displaying ads, even if the content is relevant. So Google can dump such sites (and their owners) without finding copyright violations, invalid clicks, or other offenses.
It's also possible that Google is leaving most such sites in place (both in AdSense and in the SERPs) until it can find a way to deal with them algorithmically. There's no way that Google can keep up with "AdSense spam" manually, but if it can identify such sites and remove them from its SERPs automatically, Webmasters and SEOs will have less incentive (or at least fewer rewards) for spamming the index with junk AdSense sites.
Obviously, Google can't just turn a blind eye to such sites, because they clutter up Google's search results and--just as important--reinforce the belief amony some (many?) advertisers that the AdSense network consists of too many junk sites delivering junk traffic.
Every URL?Or do you mean every site?
Sorry, I should have clarified it that they check every domain/site, they don't quality check every single page on the domain, unless they have reason to.
As far as the advertisers seeing those "scraped" pages as low quality, I really doubt it. It seems to me that a copy of a Google SERP would display more or less the same ads as the real Google SERP, so any difference in the quality of the click should be minimal.
(Note to EuropeForVisitors: This is one of the rare instances where you and I seem to disagree...)
These sites are for showing ads. What other purpose do they serve? No question exists as to the purpose of these sites, it is to make money.
The Gap in checking URLs must be made much smaller. Why not block revenue ads from showing up on domains not under the approved category and force publishers to wait for revenue ads to show up on these new domains. It is the only option. Sure legitimite publishers are now faced with a delay, but it certainly will minimize the occuraances of this crap.
Google has a lot of work to be done. Fraud is now being comitted not by clicking own ads, but exploiting content to drive traffic to pages that then convert to legitimate clicks.
I do not think a single reason exists for these sites to be OK by any interpretation of the TOS. This is stealing content, as it is taken without my permission and used for unauthorized use. This is clearly stated on my TOS page.
Not only are adsense assets being thrown at combating this garbage, but Google as a whole has terrible SERPs now from all this garbage clogging it all up.
Someone needs to let google know it would be a good idea to have a good product before that precious IPO. I smell a flop.
Someone needs to let google know it would be a good idea to have a good product before that precious IPO. I smell a flop.
I have a feeling Google's main focus is watching it's bottom line.
If those sites were effecting it, they would be dropped fast. So far, they must not be a problem and advertisers/web searchers/etc haven't complained, since the sites still exist.
I don't think it's as clear as black and white as you make it out to be.
If they were universally thought to be poor and without use, it's possible they would be gone.
At the same time, Google isn't one to make small scall changes when one report is filed. They would rather work out an algorithm that makes the desired change across the board.
Just because you don't see changes happening every day, doesn't mean that they aren't working out algorithms to block those sites, or working out lawyer words to put them in the TOS.
Either way, just because you say "poor", doesn't necessarily make it poor. I don't like the scraper sites either, but that doesn't mean my view should what sets the rule.
As far as the advertisers seeing those "scraped" pages as low quality, I really doubt it. It seems to me that a copy of a Google SERP would display more or less the same ads as the real Google SERP, so any difference in the quality of the click should be minimal.
To judge from some of the comments I've seen on the AdWords forum, not all advertisers are so sanguine about AdSense ads on "scraped" sites. Remember, the user who's clicked through on a search result (as opposed to an AdWord) is looking for information. If the resulting page has no information, the frustrated user may click on an AdSense ad as an alternative to hitting the back button and trying again. The resulting click is less likely to convert than a click by someone who's clicking on the ad because he's interested in what it's selling. (At least, that's the theory.)
In any case, perception is often more important than reality, and if advertisers perceive that "junk sites" are bad venues for their ads, those advertisers may opt out of the content network. The fact that the AdSense program policies explicitly prohibit pages that were created to display ads suggests that Google shares (or at least is aware of) advertisers' reservations about junk sites.
I don't think it's as clear as black and white as you make it out to be.
I can't believe that we're actually in a discussion regarding the merits of a site made up entirely of scraped Google search results.
Let me walk through this from a few different perspectives:
1. As an advertiser, this is part of the reason that content network stays resoulutely 'off'
2. As a surfer - what possible value do these pages have?
3. As a publisher - these sites reduce the value and quality of the advertising medium as a whole.
4. As a search engine - these sites clog up search results pages with redundant, fruitless and copied content which do nothing for the surfer or overall search quality.
5. As an IP lawyer - these pages create market confusion.
These are two different things.
Re-publishing Google SERPs with AdSense is clearly against the AdSense TOS and should result in sanctions. It may just be a matter of time.
Interesting to note that I have found several sophisticated SEO type sites with thousands of these re-published SERPs pages added deep inside their sites, (without AdSense). I am not sure if it is new technique or old technique, but it was apparently put there for a good enough SEO reason to warrant the risk of G penalty. In one case a virtual empire of site supporting ecommerce included several with hundreds of on-theme, republished Google SERPs.
Has anyone ever ratted out another publisher? What is the process? How did it go?
Yes. A newish WW member copied one of my pages (except for the publisher code in the AdSense ads - funny, that), and I filled out three Google DMCA notices. After the first notice, he placed a shorter version on a new domain and then a copy on a third site.
I had no contact with him. He eventually wrote to me saying that he was only testing how high the page would rank - yeah, right - and offered me a PR6 link to compensate. He had also copied another person's content, but the latter hates DMCA more than plagiarists, so he didn't complain.
While the DMCA end of Google was swift in removing the Serps as fast as I could fill out the forms, its AdSense end was totally disinterested in the fact that another person was making money from my work. The amount I make from that page in one month is less than $10, so this was all about the principle of it. I was mainly interested in hearing G's response.
Between you, me and the gatepost, AdSense should have handled it by looking at my account and chucking a couple of bucks my way and made it look as if they actually investigated. I'd be none the wiser. Instead, the incident was written up in a magazine editorial and also passed on to my clients who advertise in AdWords. Still, it's a grain of sand in the universe of things and I know that.
I spoke with Gokul at Pubcon and a few others present backed me in asking for the T&C to be amended. This happened some weeks later, but I haven't tried reporting the 10 or so other plagiarists I have discovered. Today, ;) you might find that G cancels plagiarists accounts immediately...
I suggest you try the DMCA route once; write to the advertisers whose ads appear on the copied site, then move on. (Note that your DMCA complaint will appear in edited form at the chillingeffects site)
