Forum Moderators: martinibuster
On another note, many of these sites i have have browsed are put together quite poorly. Navigation is bad on some, content is minimal. Why is adsense "featuring" these sites that are so mediocre at best? How about "featuring" EFV's site, put something like that on a the featured page, not some site that looks like a 8th grade science project. Good navigation and quality content should be featured, and the ability for adsense to work well on that site, not show everyone that anybody can get into this program with any old site.
Look at the page rank for some of the "featured" adsense stories websites. One in particular has a whopping 400 odd backlinks and a pagerank of 9. Ha! Google is clearly stuffing pagerank into the adsense case study sites.
Maybe they plan to offer PageRank credits as a payment option. If some Webmasters are making money by selling PageRank, why shouldn't Google try to get in on the action? :-)
Page Rank 9 on a site with 400 links looks silly at best. I wonder what the real story is behind why that is so high for a adsense publisher? You see some real major everday brand sites with page rank 7, 8 and then you see a science project with 9, really stands out.
Anyway, who wants to buy some high pagerank links? (Kidding)
There is a PR 9 site in the case study that shows 486 backlinks in google.
The same site shows 13,200 backlinks in Y! using the linkdomain: command.
Did you check for deep links?
Maybe we can leave the conspiracy theories aside for a bit?
[edited by: PatrickDeese at 3:54 am (utc) on June 27, 2004]
A few hundred thousand pages with decent page rank could get a page up a couple notches (the index page) but 9 is pretty high for anything, even with 10,000 medium level banklinks.
This does not look natural. Google not showing some lower backlinks would reaffirm this point, a ton of low pagerank links can provide some increase in overall pagerank, but i think it will take an awful lot (read more than 10,000) backlinks in the lower ranges (for which are not shown as backlinks with the toolbar tool because PR is lower than a certainly level) to jump up to pagerank 9.
I am not aware of any PageRank 10 pages that would be providing links to this "site" to get it up to 9.
It just does not look or add up to being a natural PageRank 9 here. The adsense case studies page does not have pagerank, let alone a link to the site. I would be curious to know what method google uses to pick out some of these "model" sites to showcase like this. It certainly does seem they have helped out the site more than just providing a case study for it.
Related- Did the TOS once say that you were not allowed to place adsense on a "blog" site, and now they have a blog site on showcase? Very strange.
Umm. you do know that G doesn't show backlinks below a particular threshold, don't you?
Ummmmm. you do know that the lower PR value of links would mean the more of them it would take to increase pagerank, don't you? Let's go ahead and include that here and make sure you understand what a logrithmic scale is and how the lower value links (under the threshold) would require more links, shall we?
[edited by: ChrisKud5 at 4:34 am (utc) on June 27, 2004]
But if their web site is linked to directly from Google's site, wouldn't that in and of itself cause a jump in PageRank?
I would think a link from a pagerank 10 page to another would cause the destination page to be PR9, but google obviously does not have a link to this site on any of their pages, even in the case study page.
I have some sites with over 10,000 links to a page, all with good PR (5-6-7) and they are not page rank 9. On a log scale it would take a lot more than 10,000 links to be PR9. It does not add up.
Okay. Let's try again.
Please note that the case studies URL is https:// which Google says it doesn't index.
Notice that the pages have no page rank. Notice that page is not in cache.
This page is not passing pagerank.
--
> I have some sites with over 10,000 links to a page, all with good PR (5-6-7) and they are not page rank 9. On a log scale it would take a lot more than 10,000 links to be PR9. It does not add up.
You do understand that PageRank is not sheer page count?
If agree that it is possible for a PR 10 site to give a site PR 9 with a single links, why couldn't 13,200 links make one site (with about 200 pages) PR 9.
The only thing that doesn't add up is this bizarre pagerank "conspiracy".
Anyhow, what difference does it make? I can see just from a very cursory glance that they have a large number of high PR pages linking to them - and that looking from their press release pages, it makes perfect sense that they have such a high PR.
let's get back to working on our sites now, shall we?
Go ahead and let me know how these links that are low valued enough not to show up in a backlink check are enough to add up to page rank of 9. Then go ahead and tell me how many page rank 3 or 4 pages it would take on a logrithmic scale to equal a 9.
You will notice that google provides no links to the sites in question on their domain. Your comment about https not being indexed has no bearing at all, as google provides no links at all to the "case studied" sites.
Some people take the MASTER out of WebMASTER.
If you would like to go work on your site and maybe bump that pagerank a little go ahead, in the mean time the rest of us will be here talking about Adsense.
If in fact the base for pagerank is 10, then it would take 10 for a 1, 100 for 2, 1000 for 3, 10,000 for 4, 100,000 for 5, (of PR 1 pages) to be a specific value. This has been discussed at great length, and many people, including myself, may be about half that. so 5, 50, 500, 5000, 50,000 500,000, 5,000,000 etc etc.
Add up these pagerank "points" for all backlinks and see if it eqauals 500,000,000 or whatever it is, or anything even close for that matter.
It is quity easy to go from 4 to 5 (at least for most of us) but it is VERY hard and takes a whole lot of links and love from high PR folks to get you from like a 8 to 9 or GASP, a 10, like nasa and others.
So why does this not make sense to you? Do you not understand the logrithmic concept of pagerank? It seems to be the prefered train of thought for most folks who dabble in pagerank.
A small site with low user reach is not going to have a couple hundred thousand links coming into it giving it PR9.
So, where do I sign up to become a case study?;)
PS. Adsense has been allowing blogs for a while, though their preferences is for industry-specific kind of stuff. I believe they still frown on personal sites.
It isn't. PageRank inflation has become very commonplace recently. You can get PR6 by just buying a couple links.
The reason Google doesn't police selling PR links so much anymore is because it's not really relevant as it was before.
The high PR certainly does not hurt, and looks like it places them above other sites that are more relevenat for keywords just because of the high PR.
A jump from 6 to 9 in a month makes no sense to me, I would be very very curious as to how anyone with less than 15,000 backlinks can rack up a 9 overnight.
Sign me up too!
www.example.com (home page PR 6)
total number of pages indexed by Google: 87
links Google shows to home page: 75
links Yahoo shows to home page: 331
links Yahoo shows using the command "linkdomain:" : 1,990
--
www.example.com/sub/article.html (PR 7)
links Google show to this page: 37
links Yahoo.com show to this page: 107
How do you explain this? Deep Links.
This particular site gets deep links to specific articles all the time, including sites like USAToday.com, among others.
--
Now, I can see that this case study site you are mentioning has gotten prime links for awards and nominations - from high PR sites. Also, this site doesn't link out much at all.
So, all in all, I would say this makes perfect sense.
[edited by: PatrickDeese at 6:56 pm (utc) on June 27, 2004]
Goodnight.
ChrisKud5,
Google is not "stuffing pagerank." PatrickDeese has demonstrated it already.
Goodnight.
No Pal, the math still does not add up. How do you explain major news sites that have thousands more deeplinks to specific pages that still do not have a PR 9? How do you explain the number of links on a log scale, base 10, 5, or 2 for that matter?
It would take a lot more than just a couple thousand links from decent PR pages to equal 9, if you disagree you are disagreeing with the vast majority of people who have a little more knowledge in log scales than you do.
So no, Patrickwhateverhisname is has not explained anything. You just do not jump from a PR 6 to PR 9 site in one update, with only a couple thousand links, many of which are from low PR. Deeplinking has nothing to do with anything of the number and PR of these links is fairly low in terms of PR9 sites.
Go ahead and show us all how this site adds up to a PR9 on a log 4 scale with the given number of backlinks. I would like to see you show us the math for that.
So, no one has given any reason why this is PR9, so i suggest you head back on over to the link building forum.
Goodnight to you.
[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 1:18 am (utc) on June 28, 2004]
[edit reason] leave the personal stuff at the server door - thanks. [/edit]
Pagerank leaks for one. Bad internal linking. The shear number of links on a given page so that the PR is distributed more evenly through the site rather than directed towards a certain page. It isn't the num-ber of links it is the quality of the vote. Those thousands of deeplinks may be linking to heavy to other things leaving the vote weak.
"Judging by the performance of the site in your profile Patrick, it does not look like you are any kind of expert in the field of link development or a master at determining page rank. I am not about to take the opinion of a newbie webmaster over the opinions of many experts who have written articles on pagerank, sorry!"
Ahh it sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me.
I doubt very much that you are an expert yourself. I would like to see your math for determining your own pagerank. Keep in mind that you have to know the complete linking for all sites listed in the google index in order to ACCURATELY and mathmatically reproduce your own page rank.
I am in no way saying that I am an expert. So don't go there.
"Deeplinking has nothing to do with anything of the number and PR of these links is fairly low in terms of PR9 sites."
Deep linking has alot to do with PR. Internal and external. If you think it doesn't then your "expert" credibility is deminished.
I say bye-bye to you now.
Judging by the performance of the site in your profile Patrick ... I am not about to take the opinion of a newbie webmaster ...
Only a newbie would judge anyone around here by the site they list in their profile.
Please go ahead and continue posting - you are obviously enamored with your theory - you have won me over.
--
<sarcasm> Okay - big news everyone - Google is secretly making sites that it features in the Adsense Case Studies PR 9 sites. Luckily, the hawk-eyed ChrisKud5 was able to catch the SOB's red-handed. Let's get a posse together and lynch the whole lot of 'em! </sarcasm>
--
Please. Why don't you go read an ebook on how to make money on the internet in 10 seconds or something. Look for one with extry-big type and double spaced.
Don't send me any stickymail lying about your extremly high adsense payouts from clicks by WW visitors either.
Even if Google is somehow boosting the PR of the "featured sites"........... who cares?
Have you a blog competing with that one?
I am waiting on the same from you.
"I would like to see your math for determining your own pagerank. Keep in mind that you have to know the complete linking for all sites listed in the google index in order to ACCURATELY and mathmatically reproduce your own page rank."
So tell me how do you do it accurately and mathmatically?
"So far I hear a lot of flap jaw out of you but have seen no attempt at any sort of backup."
Again you are shoveling the same crap. I want to see back up. Not speculation.
Also, in other case studies I have seen a PR5 and two PR6's - if Google was going to stuff PR, why not those ones too?
Persistence and deep linking from those kinds of sites, with the traffic link distribution they bring (email newsletters, etc) should be very helpful for his PR over time, no?
They don't link to any of the case studies, either on the pages or in the PDFs. It has the web address in each case study, but none of them are linked ;)
Must be the excitment of a minority gov't that distracted me:)
Must be the excitment of a minority gov't that distracted me:)Crazy Canadians :)
Ohh wait, the moderator is one too...
/banned
