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What is the minimum you would leave for?

Hypothetical Adsense Competition

     
12:02 pm on May 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Lets pretend company X makes an EXACT adsense clone...

By exactly I mean everyything... from the type and number of advertisers to the payout to the algo to the display... It basically is a adsense mirror.

Then they came to you (as an adsense user) and asked what is the ONE MOST important change they could make to get you to switch to there service permanently.

Would you want to have more contact with X staff?

More Payout?

More Advertisiers?

Me: I would leave if they provided an option to disregard clicks from all the IPs used to check the stats page. And some for features to stop the competition getting me banned by clicking like crazy on my ads... however they could be done.

12:08 pm on May 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

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features to stop the competition getting me banned by clicking like crazy on my ads

What evidence is there that that's a problem?

I'v never heard of that happening.

TJ

1:23 pm on May 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Significant enough more money to compensate for the amount of Goodwill that Google has built with me.

Yeah, I know call me shortsighted and an irrational fan...

I am really looking for a network to be set up as a default. Using CJ or CPM solutions does not pay enough for me to bother. Adsense has really brought in to the front the value of my traffic, and if I am going to give it away for peanuts, I might as well give it all away.

1:50 pm on May 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

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the amount of Goodwill that Google has built with me.

And your site users.

"Ads by Google" is not such a bad brand to put on a website.

Their name on your site has some intrinsic value over and above "Ads by Joe Bloggs".

I wouldn't take more money over that brand image unless it was significant.

TJ

5:28 pm on May 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

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When Yahoo/Overture rolls out their program to the masses, I will give it a try.
5:52 pm on May 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Answer: More money.

But the ads would have to be of value to my readers. On a special-interest site, ads should enhance (not detract from) the user experience. Otherwise, the publisher is sacrificing long-term credibility and success for short-term profits. (If I wanted to do that, I'd run pop-up ads!)

8:34 pm on May 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

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More specific:

1. A report that specified the exact percentage of revenue received for each click. It would be nice to know what we are giving away.

2. The ability to target a keyword phrase for each page. I can be far more accurate than mediabot, thank you.

11:53 pm on May 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I would like to be able to set two or three keywords per page. That would still be combined with the Google algo but I think could make the resulting ads more specifically matched thus better earnings.
11:58 pm on May 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

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or negative keywords available by channel or page.

meta="-adsense" content="don't put stuff about x on this part of my site. I know I have links to stuff about x, but the page itself is about y"

12:12 am on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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more or same money... with a clearly worded TOS that doesn't make you guess what they mean...
2:18 am on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Not having your epc cut in half without warning would be a good start.
9:46 am on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Of course most things boil down to money, but it is not that simple.

A competitor would have to have the same enormous database of advertisers in the market you need, plus they would need to be able to serve relative ads within seconds or minutes as AdSense does for it to make any sense.

Not only that but the competitor would also need to be respected in the field to gain the big payers.

I can only see Overture (yahoo) possibly doing something relevant and if they could do all the above I would experiment to see which pays the most - or change each week to offer users a different ad etc. Until I have passed a true and valid period for which to test the best payer.

I am constantly amazed by G how it can within seconds/minutes take a brand new page and serve relevant ads. They do occasionally get it wrong but, overall they do an amazing job. It would cost me a lot to do the same individually and to be honest I doubt it would even be possible as there are just too many topics and new pages daily.

Of course I still feel I should be paid more - but who doesn't!

10:17 am on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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> course most things boil down to money, but it is not that simple.

>Of course I still feel I should be paid more

Wake up folks! Google Adsence is an affilaite marketing program. It boils down to money, and simply doesn't pay if you take the time to look at its competitors.

I look at Adsense every week, I play with it in test mode, but it never makes good financial sense! I simply can't ditch my merchants in favor of AdSence, it would be suicide!

Right now my merchants will pay about 10 to 1 over AdSense.....that is a huge margin and one most people should be playing with.

Okay....you make some money with Adsence today, and are scared to move. IMHO that is a fools position, heck stay there, I don't need you eating any portion of my pie!

3:17 pm on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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percentages:

You have built a site that works great with affiliates and converts well. Of course, a webmaster would make a lot more money with CPA if each and every one of their clicks would convert.

However, I seriously suspect that this is not the case for all sites, all topics or all industries.

Furthermore, the number of niche advertisers present in Adsense dwarf the number of affiliate advertisers present out there. {that I would like to work with}

From the clicks that you send those advertisers? How many do you ultimately get paid for due to a purchase, registration or lead?

I get paid for 100% of my clicks. Surely not as much as if they had performed an action and I was in CPA, but I like the idea of getting X cents for each.

3:30 pm on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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If there was another program just like adsense, I would neither stay wholly with Google or switch entirely.

I would use both to diversify. The exact split to be determined on an ongoing basis.

4:00 pm on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Some way to say to mediabot "don't index this part of the page".

For example, an attribute like robots:noindex="" that I can put on a tag, whether a div, span, table, or whatever.

4:00 pm on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Actually, percentages is right and I suspect it works with most industries.

However, most content developers are content developers and not business dev people.

AdSense is basically your business dev department, letting you focus on what you do best. Or lets you go sailing.

4:06 pm on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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percentages wrote:

I look at Adsense every week, I play with it in test mode, but it never makes good financial sense! I simply can't ditch my merchants in favor of AdSence, it would be suicide!

You needn't ditch affiliate merchants to use AdSense. (Of course, if AdSense doesn't work for you, there's no point in wasting the screen real estate on an "Ads by Google" box.)

Right now my merchants will pay about 10 to 1 over AdSense.....that is a huge margin and one most people should be playing with.

AdSense performance varies enormously by topic, specific keywords, and publisher. AdSense works pretty well for me; it contributes about 25% of my revenues during the main vacation-planning season and maybe 35-40% in the quieter months. I'd be happier if AdSense paid as generously as it did before April 1, but it's still too good to pass up.

Loanuniverse makes a good point when he says that there are far more AdSense advertisers than there are affiliate programs. The sheer variety of targeted AdSense ads is what makes AdSense different from affiliate programs and other ad networks. That's why AdSense works so well with large sites (such as content sites) that have pages on many different subtopics. On my travel site, for example, articles on Danube river cruises and the Edinburgh Festival wouldn't produce much, if any, income from affiliate programs--but with AdSense, those articles could earn money from ads for river-cruise travel agencies and companies that sell festival tickes or festival tours. This is a huge benefit for an editorial site that can't afford to limit its coverage to topics that generate revenues from affiliate programs.

4:25 pm on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Yeah, but you can write custom creatives, control positioning, and there is no middleman taking up to 60-80% of the juice.

Also, Google is good, but their AI don't beat grey matter just yet.

If it does, well, I'm going to buy a lot of shares.

However, given a certain mix of talent and a certain type of content, AdSense probably makes more sense from a cost/benefit analysis of labour usage.

9:55 pm on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I'm shallow.

A format which won't offend my users (google is good in this department as are very discrete) and which pays better will win me over.

[edited by: daunk at 9:55 pm (utc) on May 29, 2004]

9:55 pm on May 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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They would need to have a search engine that could send as much traffic as G. Every time I load a new adsense page in the browser, it's spidered by mediabot, and indexed quickly. Coincidence?
2:38 am on May 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I think percentages nailed it... AdSense is amateur day for online advertising, and pays pocket change for minimal effort. But hey, there are an awful lot of amateurs out there in need of pocket change, willing and able to expend minimal effort.

If AdSense is doing one thing it is educating a generation of web publishers on web publishing. If they stick with it, they start playing with affiliate programs as well. If they master the arts, they may be like percentages and laugh when they look back at the days they thought $x/day was good money from advertising. Or they may not.

Remember this is WebmasterWorld and not SEO world or OnlineMarketingWorld. the "webmasters" group is huge, the online marketers, SEOs, advertisiers, etc smaller groups with different interests, skills, etc.

I wish I could ape percentages for a month, and learn a few tricks.

3:01 am on May 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Every time I load a new adsense page in the browser, it's spidered by mediabot, and indexed quickly

Google maintains that Adsense/Adwords usage does not affect ranking. Has anyone ever asked if it affects indexing? If Google's stated goal is to index very page on the Internet, it only makes sense for them to index new pages whenever (and however) they encounter them.

3:39 am on May 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I think percentages nailed it... AdSense is amateur day for online advertising, and pays pocket change for minimal effort.

Contrary to what some people here seem to think, AdSense can pay a lot more than pocket change. (Which is why you see AdSense ads running on megasites, not just on mom-and-pop sites).

6:15 am on May 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

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A lot of the reason AdSense is running on a lot of websites is an issue of upper management ignorance.

Though for newspapers, it's interesting about AdSense, because it does create a degree of editorial neutrality when it comes to advertising going along with content.

Though I wonder if online journalists are partially evaluated by the amount of AdSense revenue they generate :)

Anyways, even the newspaper sites will let you know that they also sell direct marketing to the customer.

6:24 am on May 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

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A lot of the reason AdSense is running on a lot of websites is an issue of upper management ignorance.

In the case of many special-interest sites (both large and small), AdSense is running because it often pays well.

In the case of newspaper and other general-interest sites, it's probably running because it offers an alternative to run-of-network banner ads.

Though for newspapers, it's interesting about AdSense, because it does create a degree of editorial neutrality when it comes to advertising going along with content.

No more so than conventional advertising.

Though I wonder if online journalists are partially evaluated by the amount of AdSense revenue they generate :)

Not likely.

Anyways, even the newspaper sites will let you know that they also use sell direct marketing to the customer.

Sure, they use every source of revenue that they can. Ditto for the big news/entertainment/portal sites, which sometimes look like weekly shoppers with editorial content tucked between banners, skyscrapers, buttons, e-commerce links, sponsored links, and anything else the publisher can think of. :-)

7:20 am on May 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

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anything that paid me more money. That is my only rule.
7:48 am on May 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

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A lot of the reason AdSense is running on a lot of websites is an issue of upper management ignorance.

In the case of many special-interest sites (both large and small), AdSense is running because it often pays well.

Europeforvisitor you don't have to take offense at this. It is true. Its not because Upper Management thinks Adsense is the best their websites can earn. Its because (at least where I used to work :)) Upper Management doesn't know Adsense exists. Webmasters put it on their sites and Upper Management has no clue. They trust the webmaster/employee and have no understanding for how it works, but also trust the Google name and think its just part of the game. And the webmaster keeps the coin.

Of course, if the intention of the first listed post was that Upper Management is ignorant for knowingly picking Adsense over other alternatives, then that is rather close minded. There are reasons besides gross revenue that can enter the equation. Even with all the complaining I do about Adsense, I still trust them way more than CJ, LinkShare, or the merchants that come with them. I have pages that have both Linkshare merchants and Adsense on them and Adsense shows three times the impressions (which happens to be very close to the real amount) that LinkShare does. Adsense can expand revenue where affiliate ads cannot. An example would be a widget directory that has agreed to list a limited number of keyword clients per page. Google, not being a keyword client, is an option to expand the revenue of that keyword page using what ends up being a mix of keyword and non keyword vendors, some of whom may already be paying to be listed on the site. There are very few local affiliate options and the national ones either don't work, or would corrupt the integrity of the site.

8:02 am on May 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

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So you would rather get less from adsense than from a guy that is lieing to you. Who cares if they don't give you as much as they promissed or are cheating so they pay you less as long as it is more than you could get anywhere else. We don't even know if Google is cheating us there is no promise. They could be doing all kinds of things to us and we would never know. If an affiliate said they would give me so much per new customer and lied to me about how many customers they got I don't care as long as I get more money than I could elsewhere. There are some industries that the affiliates do this as a matter of business and everybody knows it. They deal with them because they pay good.
8:23 am on May 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

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So you would rather get less from adsense than from a guy that is lieing to you.
Yes bcuz the stress is less.;)
Seriously, there are degrees. If its a dollar more a day and you're being ripped off a lot, or thousands a day and its just a not so effective tracking program. The affiliate thing doesn't work for all sites. Adsense doesn't work for all sites. The ones that don't work for affiliates are not necessarily the ones that don't work for Adsense which means there's room for both to be the best option for different sites.

<added>And the more I think of it the more I keep thinking I really hate being lied to.</added>

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