Forum Moderators: martinibuster
I am not sure, but doing a study on the stats for one of our web site, I feel like payout percentage has dropped a lot compared to the early days of AdSense.
It would be very much helpful if Google would tell publishers how much percentage they are giving out? (25%, 35%, 50%... or what?)
From their annual reports and conferences, we know that some major players such as CNN and NYT are getting as much as 80 percent of the payout. That sounds great for those publishers until you realize that most news doesn't generate high PPC rates. Smaller travel sites, on the other hand, will get a lower percentage but a higher payout.
Of course, then there is traffic. CNN got 22,399,000 uniques in February and they stayed on the site for 33-plus minutes. NYT got almost 10 million uniques who stayed on the site for over 44 minutes. If you had a choice between having the money from a travel site or CNN, even with the lower PPC, with the traffic and the high percentage, you'd take CNN.
More traffic usually pays well. More clicks and a higher percentage from the contextual ad provider.
But I agree that it is probably more complicated than a tier, but also involves topics. However, I think that the driver behind the process is profit not so much fear of competition. Google has littke to fear from the competitors out there right now.
{One year from now, it might be a whole different story. Specially after they file their IPO and start disclosing the money they are making}
Also, I agree with you guys about Google paying out differnt percentage for different words. I only hope that they inform publishers on their own about the percentage payout, cuz without knowing the percentage..it just doesn't easy to trust them blindly about the potential earning.
"I think is tiered. A lot of people have speculated that the payout at the lown end is effectively 60% {as in 60% of $0.05 is $0.03}."
Hmm... say even if this speculation is correct, the gross could still be $0.06 right given the payout % is 50%. There's no way to know the exact since there are 2 unknown variables here.
Now that channel reporting is here I suspect a lot of people will be trying to figure out this number, e.g. by clicking on one of their own ads so they know the exact cost to the advertiser.
I don't have much interest in "what's your CTR?" type discussions, but this is one violation of the TOS I wouldn't complain about.
it may involve over 100 factors
I was going to say... No way!, why overcomplicate things?
But then I remembered that we are talking about Google where there must be a strong geek / CS Major / PhD culture, and maybe you are on to something.
NS
From a publisher's perspective, the revenue on the bottom line is the only thing that really matters. Because AdSense doesn't demand exclusivity or a long-term commitment, it's easy for publishers to slap the code on their pages, monitor their AdSense statistics, and decide whether the incremental revenues from AdSense justify devoting screen real estate to an "Ads by Google" box.
Well.. now the question is, if someone wants to find the payout percentage then it is not very hard to do so anyway....
Sure, it is. Even if you could extrapolate a payout percentage for one site, you'd need to repeat the process for a large number of sites with different traffic levels, different topics, etc. to draw any valid conclusions. And even if you could draw such conclusions, how could you be sure that the payout formula wouldn't change over time?
However I assume Google can gain more trust in the publisher community by giving out the percentage on their own...
How would a disclosure of the payout formula result in "more trust in the publisher community"? And why would a lack of such disclosure result in less trust? Google isn't marketing AdSense on the basis of revenue splits; it's marketing AdSense as a generator of revenue. Also, disclosing the payout formula wouldn't silence the suspicion-and-paranoia crowd who are convienced that Google is cheating them whenever their revenues drop. They'd simply worry that Google was fudging the clickthrough numbers,the percentage calculations, or some other factor.
Instead of obsessing over Google's payout formula, publishers should be concerned with whether their bottom-line AdSense revenues justify running "Ads by Google." If the answer is "yes," they should continue running the ads; if the answer is "no," they should find a better way to monetize their screen real estate.
Even if you could extrapolate a payout percentage for one site, you'd need to repeat the process for a large number of sites with different traffic levels, different topics, etc. to draw any valid conclusions.
Actually, we don't even know if that statement is true or not. It's just supposition that has built up over time. I've been reading this forum for months, and it seems like for all anybody really knows, Google could be applying a straight 50-50 split across the board.
Anyway, I personally don't obsess over it; in fact I rarely think about it. But I do think that not revealing the very basis on which publishers get paid is unfair and frankly kind of bizarre.
Am I happy with the revenue earned? Could I earn more through direct sales? Can I increase revenue from both without adding to staff expenditure etc? How can I add to content to be meaningful to viewers and generate additional income? What areas of the sites can I generate more income through direct and non direct sales tactics?
That is it. Frankly I do not care what percentage is being given out, nor whether my CTR or EPC has dipped from one day to another.
Why worry about things you cannot control, worry instead on things you can control.
Why worry about things you cannot control, worry instead on things you can control.
Because in business dealings parties involved like to know what is going on.
Imagine if a new affiliate program was launched with these terms: "We give you a percentage of sales based on current market conditions." Then in your reports, all you see is X clickthrus produced Y number of orders with commission due you of Z dollars. The program would be laughed out of town. It would reek with a lack of credibility, even if every sale actually was reported. Bottom Line: People don't appreciate smugness and mystery in business dealings. Being straight forward and open is best so parties understand each other and no animosity or misunderstandings form in the future. Clauses like this are often set up just to screw people later.
The only reason google gets away with this is because of size, current reputation, and lack of competition. Never in history have so many contracts been signed where the terms aren't even known.
Because in business dealings parties involved like to know what is going on
Not only I agree with PPCBidder, but I also would like to add that if we are united in asking Google for this information, we may eventually get it the same way we got stats and other features. It does not have to be a public information, it can just be part of our individual stats.
Google has no interest in giving us this feature until complains do not reach a critical mass.
Adsense is almost free money outside of a bit of used web page space and people leaving your site time to time after clicking an ad.
As far as I know there are anti-trust committees both in US and EU that stop large firms of taking advantage from their strength or monopoly in a marketplace.
I am not a lawyer but it is more than obvious that Google is certainly taking some kind of advantage of its strength through its TOS, so I can predict that one day things will be forced to change.
The confidentiality of each agreement can be understood but the lack of any kind of certain payment formula is at least strange in business ethics.
<<Adsense is almost free money...>>
Sorry friend but there is no free money in these hard days. The fact that many sites using Adsense do not have each own advertisement revenues does not mean in any way that all other sites that do have should be treated the same.
Never in history have I made so much in terms of EPC ;) I can forgive Google's non-disclosure of commission cut so long as I am making a profit...and a bigger one CPM-wise than before NOW that I have Adsense on my sites...
By not disclosing what cut the publisher is getting, Google is protecting itself from being manipulated. If you discovered that "Topic A" was getting an 80% cut, instead of 1,000 useless pages about "Topic A", you'd have 10,000!
Perhaps Google isn't disclosing payout percentage because their formula is fluid. Perhaps their "payout formula" looks at what kind of ROI Adwords advertisers get with their ads on your site. Perhaps they take into account your CTR. Perhaps they take into account how long a visitor remains on your site before he/she clicks on an Adsense ad. Who knows! But I do know that their "formula" is probably far too complicated than to just post what kind of cut we publishers are getting....
Dave.
I can forgive Google's non-disclosure of commission cut so long as I am making a profit...
I cannot believe that most of people on this forum seem to be just happy to make some money, any money. And yet they go to great extent in analyzing their stats to see how they can increase there revenue, completely ignoring the biggest variable of all, which is the percentage Google is paying us.
What we really need more than just knowing the percentage that G is paying us is a way to control when to display Adsense without jeopardizing our other programs or affiliations.
If I can control the price at which I rent advertising space on my site, I can increase my revenue. Like many others in this forum, I rent advertising space, space for banners if you prefer, to other companies. I have no incentive to allocate this space to Adsense UNLESS I have a fair idea of how much Google is paying for the same space.
If Google gives us the ability to display Adsense only when the estimated EPC is above $X, I’ll go with Google otherwise I remain with my banners. As you can see this feature is in the best interest of Google too.
Note that this way Google does not even have to tell us the percentage it pays, it only has to let us set a variable (the $X above) which determines, in real time, if I should display Adsense or someone else’ banner. This is something similar to the PSA or alternative ads where we are allowed to display alternative ads if the expected Adsense revenue is zero.
What I am saying is let’s ask Google to enhance this feature so that not only I can display alternative ads when the expected revenue is zero, but also when is 5 cents or ten cents or whatever I decide.
I know exactly what Google is paying me. I know how much I'm making with Adsense per unique visitor, per click, and per 1000 impressions. AND, I know that Adsense is far outperforming any blase, ugly-arse banner I can put up. Assuming you know how to calculate the above values, that should be plenty of information for you to make sound business decisions...
Dave.
...UNLESS I have a fair idea of how much Google is paying for the same space....I think you mean how much Google is getting paid..... :D
I think more like Davewray. Frankly, the only reason why I would care would be if I wanted to build a better mousetrap. I just don't see myself getting 150,000 advertisers and challenging Google. Adsense ads stay until it does not make sense for me not to have them up.
Sure, Google gets paid. But that's how all of these ad networds run, they get paid first, then we do. I just get a bigger cut from G. And like you say, so long as it makes sense for me, Adsense is staying up on my sites! :)
Dave.
I am getting more money from Google, by far, than from any other advertiser or program. It is certainly in my interest that Adsense remain profitable for Google and that they keep and continue to improve the program. That is more important than my curiosity about their income.
