Forum Moderators: martinibuster
The only difference to the site is that we had a design change and it did affect our click rate. But that is about it.
What I don't understand is if they track clicks by IP address why do they not just exclude them and not charge for the click. I can and do the same when needs be. It isn't hard to do.
If a visitor click on 40 ads, so be it. Google could also limit the amount of clicks a certain person could have. That wouldn't be hard to do either.
I did email them and hope to hear back real soon. My log files alone can't tell me enough unless I know where the "fraud clicks came from. Clicking on an ad does not show up. I did request them to clarify and give me more info so I can find out what the problem is.
Here is the story as I see it,, Google has the cards, they make the rules and change them to make more money for them. If the clicks are fraud, then who gets the money they collected,, is it refunded to the Adwords owner, I have never got a refund on my adwords statment.
I think Google should do business as they would do business with other. What I mean by that is this. They would never do business with you on the terms that they have made for us!
I would love to hear from anyone about this. On this board or to my email. tonym@parrett.net
Thanks,
Tony
I would really love to know how Google tracks such frauds
If Google told people how they track fraud, that would just lead some to circumvent Google's tracking methods to make fraudulent clicks through other means.
I think we can add this one to the list of things that AdSense will never tell us ;)
I think we can add this one to the list of things that AdSense will never tell us
You are right, Jenstar.
I also got the same email this morning - and like you I can guarantee that I haven't clicked on any ads. In the past 2 days there has been a sudden increase in my CTR and earning - maybe the email/investigation has just been triggered by this increase. Considering how many charity ads are showing on my site (the targetting is up the spout at the moment), I am surpised to get any paying clicks.
Google certainly have the people who can figure out what's happening - whether they are used to investigate this possible click fraud is another matter. They should be able to figure out country (if not organisation) from the IP - but then they have to decide if It was me and they don't know whether I have a friend somewhere who clicks on my behalf.
But on the other side, we have google who would have fool-proof testing methods to verify the authentic nature of this fraud and whether it has been commited by the owners or others, or something like that.
If the owners claim innocence and google cannot be wrong, then what is wrong?
Why my CTR should jump is an absolute mystery - but it could be as simple as a bands tour is announced and people click on ticket ads having looked at the tour dates (from the timings it looks like get a lot of clicks in UK work time)
Imaster, maybe Google is trying to scare the livin' "H" out of everyone and you've been selected a patsy.
You could be right. I am lucky that my sites get decent ctr and I am not a target yet :)
We get a high CTR and I believe that's the only reason we got one of the "fraudulent clicks" emails. The fact that the CTR is consistently high 24x7 does not seem to figure in Google's calculations. Presumably if someone is getting more than 10-15% clickthoughs they must have an army of recruits sitting in different countries, on different IPs, just clicking away 24 hours a day to boost our revenue past the $20 per day figure.
>> If those who have received such emails from Google say that they are innocent and they haven't caused this fraud, then who could have done it
I don't believe that there has to be a fraud for Google to send this email out. I believe they even send it out for sudden (even small) increases in CTRs. Especially if the CTR then drops backs down again.
That does raise serious concerns as a publisher already on Adsense will have to be very cautious about adding or removing Adsense from pages for fear of affecting CTR.
My sites get standard ctr and the ctr's you mentioned are way way too high. Perhaps my post above suggested that I was worried about my sites, which I am not
Not only could this result in account termination, but perhaps our sites could also come under scrutiny as Google might think that we are involved in fradulent activities.
By "our sites", I meant any general site that registered a high number of CTR. I didn't refer to my site. I am just saying that Google should have solid checking tools to verify fradulent activities so that innocent sites don't get in trouble.
You are incorrect in your assumption that a certain CTR is "way too high". There is no absolute high or low. It can only be too high in relation to other sites in the same "category".
>> I am just saying that Google should have solid checking tools to verify fradulent activities
I'd vote for that 100%
You are incorrect in your assumption that a certain CTR is "way too high". There is no absolute high or low. It can only be too high in relation to other sites in the same "category".
You are right, I guess. Different topics can yield different CTR's and some topics can yield high ctr's too :)
1- Several clicks from a single ip or a range of ips.
2- High CTR.
3- Sudden increases in CTR.
4- Sudden increases in impressions.
5- Spider detects a word that might be considered innapropiate.
I hope that the email is not triggered automatically, and that all the flag does is alert someone to do a spot check on the site. However, the posts from people claiming to be innocent leads me to believe that the net to catch fraud is too wide and that the process might be more automated than it should be.
Google's AdSense is buying my lunch for now, and I thank them graciously for that.
One theory could be, that google compares CTRs to conversions.
If that ratio is bad then they kick you off. For that they would need
to get feedback from the advertisers.
Certain ads/term have a very high price. If you happen to attract those for while, but nobody buys AND if there is a feedback loop, then this could explain some of the observations here.
Or 'Fraudulent Clicks' is just a generic way of everything that google
does not like.
As said in a another thread: A generic email and a blocked login account is all you get from google when they disolve your account. No specifics.
At least in all cases that I know off.
Why my CTR should jump is an absolute mystery - but it could be as simple as a bands tour is announced and people click on ticket ads having looked at the tour dates (from the timings it looks like get a lot of clicks in UK work time)
Small sites are likely to have more problems with "CTR jumps" than larger ones are, simply because a larger site's AdSense ads will be spread over so many pages and keywords. So bulding a large, comprehensive, high-quality site will offer multiple advantages:
1) More traffic.
2) More ads to display.
3) Less likelihood of triggering a "fraud alarm" at Google if you've got a page about Harry Potter that generates a flood of clicks when the next Harry Potter book comes out.
To bad it was an automated response. Stating that we are still investigating the matter but "In the interim" my account will stay open.
Ok that was helpful.
I want to know what is going on with my website, my visitors, my business. I do not appreciate the vague response nor do I appreciate the fact that I am not given a timeline to when this matter will be taken care of.
I do not appreciate the vague response nor do I appreciate the fact that I am not given a timeline to when this matter will be taken care of.
That means that the longer it takes the more you lose. I'm in exactly the same position. Perhaps the best route is to replace the Adsense ads with another paying program till they decide whether they are going to pay you or not. OK, it will probably make you less money, but a bird in the hand...
One theory could be, that google compares CTRs to conversions.
If that ratio is bad then they kick you off. For that they would need
to get feedback from the advertisers.
I think that overall, the ads are well priced. But some companies might be paying to much to be #1. Google benefits from being a per click network much better than a per action network and that will not change IMHO.
I really do feel as if I am prison stating over and over "I didn't do it" and of course nobody believes me.
If they go by IP and I am on a dial up (server assigns IP) can another person from my town with the same Internet provider get assign the same IP address as the one Google loged. Just wondering. We are from a small town and many people visit our site.
I'm very sad to see Google treating people the way they're treating you, Cramalot, and I don't want that to happen to me.
Search engines grew up having an adversarial relationship with webmasters. I guess that's all they know.
That might work, but I don't think Google really cares
about conversion rate - it's really advertiser's problem.
Besides, I am an AdWords advertiser myself and I don't see any option for this kind of feedback in my control panel.
Andy
I got the same reply and for the moment I am quite happy with that. I think the first email was a warning not to do it again - 2 counts and you're out. This email says they will investigate further and remove the warning from the account if found innocent. Since I know I'm clean I am glad they are going to look into it more.
I only access the internet through 2 organisations - both of which have huge numbers of users on their proxy. If it was multiple clicking on an ad then the odds are still that it wasn't from the 2 million or so users of these services.
Wasn't there a problem with stats yesterday for a few hours? Perhaps the clicks registered but not impressions?
I'm not used to dealing with dictatorial advertisers. The ad space on my websites is of great value and I have reliable advertisers that work with me as a business partner. I'm very sad to see Google treating people the way they're treating you, Cramalot, and I don't want that to happen to me
Big money does talk and Adsense is paying the big money (or in some cases not). Everybody is a Google partner but for Google to think of you as a "business partner" you'd need to be pretty big.
Perhaps they are not planning an adverserial relationship, that can't be in their long term interest. Perhaps it's teething troubles. Time will tell.
Iguana, I hope you don't find out that being clean is not necessarily a protection against getting bumped.
But I don't rely on the money and the ads seem to be getting badly targetted recently so I wouldn't get upset. Plus I had to get off my high horse a long time ago and chop it up for firewood to keep the kids warm.
pagead2.googlesyndication.com/
Total Total 304's
Requests (NoMod Req) Bytes sent ¦ Referrer URL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 0.00% 0 0.00% 13573 0.00% ¦ /pagead/ads
client=ca-pub-############## format=120x600_as
random=############## hl=en url=http://www.mysite.com/magname[...]
1 0.00% 0 0.00% 719 0.00% ¦ /pagead/ads
client=ca-pub-############## format=120x600_as
random=############## hl=en url=http://www.mysite.com/magname[...]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 0.00% 0 0.00% 14292 0.00%
and this
freshchoice5.adz.google.com/
Total Total 304's
Requests (NoMod Req) Bytes sent ¦ Referrer URL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 0.00% 0 0.00% 22317 0.00% ¦ /ics/detail
These in no way should show up in my stats. I emailed Google with them (return receipt). They haven't got to it yet it seems.
I guess it is the American in me, but I hate the "guilty until proven innocent thing." Knowing that if they did drop my site, I won't be getting the $$$$'s of dollars that are rightfully and honestly mine.
We do 140,000 visitors per month- about 200,000 - 500,000 pageviews. A click rate from other ad sources have produced a consistent 16%CTR for the site as a whole. Individuals ads as much as 50% or better. We don't need to spam or produce fraud clicks!
