Forum Moderators: martinibuster
- On some days, site-targeted ads' CPMs were 35 to 40 percent higher than the eCPM of contextual ads on the same days. They were also around 37% higher than the monthly average eCPM for April. They also compared favorably with some of the CPMs that I get for targeted 160 x 600 display ads from major travel vendors.
- On some days, site-targeted ads' CPMs were much, much lower than the eCPMs of contextual ads.
- On days when site-targeted CPMs were high, I got thousands of site-targeted ads, including ads for a big international airline; on days when site-targeted CPMs were low, I got only very few (presumably on my lowest-performing pages such as photo galleries).
This suggests to me that:
1) Site-targeted CPM ads are working they way they're supposed to (i.e., they're being displayed only when Google thinks they'll pay better than contextual ads).
2) Some advertisers are willing to pay hefty CPMs for "run-of-site" ads on domains that meet their criteria for site targeting.
at that level, you aren't going to see very many advertisers using site-targeted ads.
Yes, for me, the relatively small number of CPM ads I get pay as well as the daily eCPM for the same day, so I certainly have no intention of asking G to block them!
Rgds
Damon
From that menu, select "individual ad unit." A checkbox labeled "Show data by targeting type - contextual or site" will appear. Check that and click the "Display Report" button.
(Note: You can sort the report by clicking any of the colunm headers at the top of the screen. For example, if you click "Targeting," all the contextual results will be displayed together with the CPM ad results underneath.)
But you guys say that site targeting gives very high eCPM? What kind of eCPMs are you seeing if not a secret.
Under the AdSense terms and conditions, we aren't allowed to share that data.
I thought I'd opted out of site targeting, but apparently not. Just looked at my stats for the last two months, and site targeted ads pay me only 2.29% of the average ad unit ecpm of the site. Clearly mileage varies a lot! :)
I suppose the algorithm has worked in my case also in that it's kept the darned things off of the site for the vast majority of the time.
My site-targeted CPMs are comparable to my CPC CPMs, but on their most widespread day this month they were only 0.2% of my impressions!
They reached about 20% of my impressions for a week in the middle of the month, when an airline was running a "spring fare sale" campaign and bidding a fairly hefty CPM. Normally they're much lower.
FWIW, the average clickthrough rate for site-targeted CPM ads is noticeably lower than the average CTR for the display banners that appear on my site, which leads me to believe that text ads aren't the best format for non-contextual direct-response ads.
Let's not forget that, if properly planned/done, CPM ads may be considered effective even if they have 0% CTR (from the advertiser's point of view).
Sure, if they're intended only to create brand awareness. But I specifically referred to direct-response ads, and all of the AdSense site-targeted CPM ads that I've noticed on my site have been direct-response ads. (Including the airline "spring fare sale" ad that was running on my site for a week in April).
Google recognizes the value of display ads, by the way: That's obviously why it introduced "image ads" some time ago. So far, though, selling display ads on the AdSense network appears to more of a goal than a reality.
exactly my point, thank you... these people that are touting site-targeted ads out here have a horrible epc.
thanks to the google tos, they don't know how bad their epc really is, because they can't compare it to our epc.
>>>Anyhow, it's apparently not a good idea to opt out of CPM ads.<<<
i'd have to agree with that, especially at your level of epc... in my case, i don't have to opt out of it, because i almost never get any site-targeted ads in the first place.
if google had any sense, they would allow the publisher to have site-targeted cpm ads over and above the per-page ad block limits that are in existance right now.
i have gotten around those limits by running ypn instead of adsense, on long pages that can handle more ad blocks.
these people that are touting site-targeted ads out here have a horrible epc.
Don't forget that site-targeted ads CPM are just that: site-targeted. And some advertisers will pay what's necessary to appear on certain sites.
i'd have to agree with that, especially at your level of epc...
these people that are touting site-targeted ads out here have a horrible epc.
Also, EPC stands for earnings per click, which is obviously irrelevant in regard to CPM ads (you earn the same money no matter how many times your CPM ads are clicked -- even if nobody clicks on them). If you want to compare performance of CPM and CPC ads, you have to compare their eCPM (not EPC).
Finally, EPC is misleading and can't be used for comparisons of overall AdSense success of two publishers. If you had $100 EPC and I had only $0.00001 EPC, I could still earn more, even if we had the same traffic.
Don't forget that site-targeted ads CPM are just that: site-targeted. And some advertisers will pay what's necessary to appear on certain sites.
I can see how this works in your case EFV, but as always mileage varies.
In my case, due to having a high position in serps, good visitor numbers, keep the crap ads out and no real competition in my niche (that's why I don't say what it is ;) ) I get a good ctr, high epc and high ecpm. Site targeted ads are cpm, and there is a limit to what advertisers are willing to pay on a cpm campaign. To appear on my site the advertiser would need to pay a lot more for a cpm campaign than they would be prepared to. The algorithm seems to work correctly in that it keeps them off.
For me, if an advertiser wants to advertise on my site, then they can click my link and advertise direct with me. They get a choice of places and pages where their ad appears, can have their own banners and the options can be tailored to their individual requirements.
I would say that the Google "Advertise on this site" facility is certainly a lot easier for webmasters, and to be honest probably a lot easier for advertisers who have an existing Adwords account. It is hard work dealing with advertisers direct and selling your own ad space.
What I'd like to see happen is for Google to offer the choice of if a banner is cpm or cpc. I'd choose to have the existing banners cpc as they are now, and I'd also have a banner where cpm advertisers could show ads at a price they would be willing to pay for a cpm campaign.
I get a good ctr, high epc and high ecpm. Site targeted ads are cpm, and there is a limit to what advertisers are willing to pay on a cpm campaign.
Maybe, that in the case of the airline campaign that I mentioned, the limit was considerably higher than I would have guessed.
To appear on my site the advertiser would need to pay a lot more for a cpm campaign than they would be prepared to.
That's what I thought, too.
For me, if an advertiser wants to advertise on my site, then they can click my link and advertise direct with me. They get a choice of places and pages where their ad appears, can have their own banners and the options can be tailored to their individual requirements.
I'd guess that in many (most?) cases, site-targeted CPM ads occur not because of the "Advertise on this site" link, but because existing AdWords/AdSense advertisers are instigating site-targeted CPM campaigns and picking sites that have been recommended by Google. And don't forget that large corporate advertisers aren't looking to do a bunch of individual ad deals with mom-and-pop Web publishers. They're more likely to deal through ad agencies and media-buying services that work with rep firms and ad networks.
Interesting side note: The airline that bought site-targeted Google CPM ads for its spring fare sale has also purchased 160 x 600 wide skyscrapers on my site through my rep firm. So why did they pay as much, or nearly as much, for Google site-targeted CPM ads as for display ads? Probably because they needed to get the sale ads up quickly and wanted to get exposure on a lot of different sites. They were just using the right tool for each job.
This AdSense blog post does a good job of explaining:
[adsense.blogspot.com...]
i already did that, in post #3 of this thread... how much will a cpm advertiser have to spend with adwords to get placement on your site, vs. what they would spend for industry standard cpm in your sector?
since you do get a bunch of site-targeted cpm ads, your adsense epc is clearly worth less than the industry standard cpm rates in your sector... obviously, the adsense stats translate epc into ecpm, if an ecpm number makes you feel better.
see below for an example of industry standard cpm pricing being similar to adsense cpm pricing:
>>>So why did they pay as much, or nearly as much, for Google site-targeted CPM ads as for display ads?<<<
more importantly, you did not establish that they paid more than the industry standard cpm rate in your sector... so your claim that "some advertisers will pay what's necessary to appear on certain sites" is not valid.
anytime you have a lot of site-targeted adsense showing up, it's proof that your pages aren't worth more than the industry standard cpm rates in your sector... cheap real estate like that is the myspace of the adsense world ;-)
i already did that, in post #3 of this thread... how much will a cpm advertiser have to spend with adwords to get placement on your site, vs. what they would spend for industry standard cpm in your sector?
It depends on what kind of placement they want. If they pay a low CPM, they'll get no more than 0.5% to 1% of my impressions on a typical day. If they pay a high CPM, they'll get more impressions (see my airline example). I obviously can't be any more specific because of the AdSense program policies.
since you do get a bunch of site-targeted cpm ads, your adsense epc is clearly worth less than the industry standard cpm rates in your sector...
By the way, overall eCPM of site-targetted ads served on our site is well over $20 (yes, twenty). Do you still believe our figures are "horrible"?
obviously, the adsense stats translate epc into ecpm
i made the assumption that you were a competent enuf publisher to have already optimized your pages to produce maximum ctr, among other things... which pretty much leaves epc as the main variable, for the purposes of this discussion.
what we are doing here is making assumptions on what price point triggers site-targeted ads.
>>>By the way, overall eCPM of site-targetted ads served on our site is well over $20 (yes, twenty).<<<
that is largely irrelevant, because you already told us that in your case "The only problem with CPM ads is that they are never served long enough (only about 2% of the time)."
you don't make squat off of site-targeted ads, but you should be congradulated for an efficient site that's in a favorable sector, because you are keeping the site-targeted ads off of your site.
so it's not about how high your ecpm is with site-targeted ads, the object is to not have any of 'em to begin with!
>>>If they pay a high CPM, they'll get more impressions (see my airline example). I obviously can't be any more specific because of the AdSense program policies.<<<
adsense program policies do not stop you from telling us the cpm rates you get from your direct advertisers... but whatever, we all know that cpm does not pay well, and adsense cpm certainly does not pay any higher than the industry standard.
the gist of this thread appears to be that most of us don't get very many site-targeted ads... except for efv, of course ;-)
i made the assumption that you were a competent enuf publisher to have already optimized your pages to produce maximum ctr, among other things... which pretty much leaves epc as the main variable, for the purposes of this discussion.
so it's not about how high your ecpm is with site-targeted ads, the object is to not have any of 'em to begin with!
Any of the few pages where I see them show up more than 10% of the time (some times as much as 99%) I assume there is something SERIOUSLY WRONG with the content (and thus the default ads) of that page not being specific enough and hurry to fix it with ad-regions or other means. I've decided to leave the site targeted ads turned on simply because I see them as a cheap useful tool to see what GAds really thinks of all the individual page content in one simple report.
adsense program policies do not stop you from telling us the cpm rates you get from your direct advertisers...
Why would I want to do that?
but whatever, we all know that cpm does not pay well
CPM ads can pay quite well.
and adsense cpm certainly does not pay any higher than the industry standard.
Not usually (which is why I see few site-targeted CPM ads normally), but there are exceptions such as the one that I mentioned.
the gist of this thread appears to be that most of us don't get very many site-targeted ads... except for efv, of course
I get very few site-targeted CPM ads, except when an advertiser is willing to pay top dollar for placement on my site.
But the bottom line is that site-targeted ads can earn good $$$ under the right circumstances, as the title of this thread suggests--for some of us, anyway, if not for you.
ripped from the asa link :-) now see if you can grasp the concept that there has to be a reason why john carpenter doesn't make any money with site-targeted ads.
>>>Why would I want to do that?<<<
because for one thing, you posted a totally misleading claim that you can't back up: "Some advertisers are willing to pay hefty CPMs for "run-of-site" ads on domains that meet their criteria for site targeting."
i think that you are refusing to post those numbers because it will reveal how little your webspace is worth.
>>>the bottom line is that site-targeted ads can earn good $$$... I get very few site-targeted CPM ads<<<
is that an oxymoron, efv?
>>>the bottom line is that site-targeted ads can earn good $$$... I get very few site-targeted CPM ads<<<is that an oxymoron, efv?
No. I didn't say that all site-targeted CPM ads earn good money. I said that site-targeted CPM ads can and sometimes do earn good money. It all depends on what the advertiser is willing to pay for site-targeted, non-contextual traffic.
