Forum Moderators: martinibuster
I posed this question to AdSenseAdvisor and several other people commented on it as well, yet we've seen no acknowledgment of it [webmasterworld.com...]
At this point, all we can assume is that Google is avoiding this issue with their publishers based on their silence.
How long were you in the program before your account was disabled? Did you see a spike in your clicks, and if so, how long after that time was your account disabled?
Perhaps a few advertisers complained, with your site as the referring URL, that the advertisers found to be fraudulent for whatever reason.
It is Google's job to keep the advertisers happy, and they do seem to be cracking down on sites with a higher incidents of fraudulent clicks, TOS violations, etc, and perhaps your site was targeted for whatever reason. And in the case of fraudulent clicks, unfortunately it does not have to be the publisher who is making the clicks, but anyone who happens to visit.
My best advice is to offer to work with Google, ban any offending IPs, and hope for the best.
I posed this question to AdSenseAdvisor and several other people commented on it as well, yet we've seen no acknowledgment of it
ASA also said he/she didn't have a chance to respond to everyone's questions yet. Please remember that ASA is just a volunteer, plus he/she just arrived at WebmasterWorld. And also, due to fraud prevention, ASA could be limited in what information can be released to the public regarding this issue, so it is worthwhile keeping that in mind.
tbird, if a site is generating a high number of fraudulent clicks, I can see it would make sense for Google to disable an account rather than taking the time to filter them all. This could happen whether you or a competitor was the one responsible for the clicking.
I have to disagree with this (unless it was clearly the accountholder causing it) because if it becomes widely known that it is so easy to get an account disabled, there will be a tremendous amount of vengeful activity going on which will ultimately lead to there being no viability for the small publisher in the AdSense program. It's only a matter of time until this happens unless Google addresses this in a professional manner.
How long were you in the program before your account was disabled? Did you see a spike in your clicks, and if so, how long after that time was your account disabled?
We were in the program for approximately 3 months before the account was disabled. There was a slight increase in clicks, but nothing I would consider to be major. I'm wiling to work with Google to get to the bottom of the problem, and have communicated my willingness to do so--unforunately they decline to address specifics.
"because if it becomes widely known that it is so easy to get an account disabled, there will be a tremendous amount of vengeful activity going on which will ultimately lead to there being no viability for the small publisher in the AdSense program."
Would like to see ASA come back with some positive feedback on this subject, and try to reassure us that they are aware of this and they are working on how we can be less of target from those that see clicking on a Ad or Ads repeatedly with intent of causing maximum damage in getting our accounts closed, to be less successfully in their campaign, by communicating and working with the publisher affected before deciding to close the account.
Would like to see ASA come back with some positive feedback on this subject, and try to reassure us that they are aware of this and they are working on how we can be less of target from those that see clicking on a Ad or Ads repeatedly with intent of causing maximum damage in getting our accounts closed, to be less successfully in their campaign, by communicating and working with the publisher affected before deciding to close the account
Couldn't agree more. I'm more than willing to cooperate and try and rectify the problem in anyway possible. Adsense has been the only legitmate revenue source that I've been able to establish for my content sites.
tbird, if a site is generating a high number of fraudulent clicks, I can see it would make sense for Google to disable an account rather than taking the time to filter them all.
I todally don't agree! Algorithms should prevent it. Are you, Jenstar, working for Google?
tbird, if a site is generating a high number of fraudulent clicks, I can see it would make sense for Google to disable an account rather than taking the time to filter them all. This could happen whether you or a competitor was the one responsible for the clicking.
I have to agree with BlueFin's criticism of this quotation. In the short term it makes sense to just disqualify any site with offending clicks because it is too much hassle in comparison to revenue, but in the longterm this is a system killer. As BlueFin mentions, there is a lot of vengeful activity on the web.
Why do societies set up small claims courts. They are a complete waste of money and other resources. Possibly hundreds of dollars are used to settle fifty dollar claims. It's because without them people would know that they could rip people off on a small scale and never have to worry about it. Likewise here. Google should waste the resources to filter fraudulent clicks, not for the benefit of the site in question, but to maintain order in general.
Of coure, having said that, we don't ever really know why people's sites are given the boot. And so the 'offending' sites may or may not be the actual offenders. Do you take the word of someone who posts a complaint on message board without any degree of skepticism?
Personally, I love Adsense and I am at the same time constantly nervous about getting the boot. And as a result, I am extra careful to follow the TOS. Hmm. Maybe public executions do work as other people have mentioned on this forum?
if it becomes widely known that it is so easy to get an account disabled, there will be a tremendous amount of vengeful activity going on which will ultimately lead to there being no viability for the small publisher in the AdSense program.
Blue_Fin, you are right on in this comment. I for one don't express my thoughts much on this or other board for just this reason. I'm often pushed for time and can't always construct as tactful a post as I should. Because of my concern that someone could become vengeful and start clicking on my sites Adsense ads and cause Google to disable my account, I just don't post.
Although my income is very diversified, I'd hate to see the Adsense income go. This concern goes "hand and glove" with fears already expressed by many about having their account suddenly disabled by Google with no recourse or explanation.
Google really needs to address this issue with:
1. A way to filter fraudulent clicks
2. A progressive communications process that could lead to a disabled account
3. An appeals process.
I can't comment on tbird's situation, but fraud has dragged down the value of every PPC program, and if you read the AdWords forum you can see it is already affecting AdSense earnings as well.
I think the risk of competitors clicking on your ads is somewhat overblown, because they are exposing themselves to significant risk without having much to gain, but ultimately if a site continues to generate a lot of suspicious untraceable clicks, what can Google do but terminate them?
I think the risk of competitors clicking on your ads is somewhat overblown, because they are exposing themselves to significant risk without having much to gain...
A bigger problem could be advertisers clicking on their competitors' ads. Of course, that could happen with AdWords, too, not just with AdSense. (In fact, it might be more likely to occur with AdWords, because it's probably easier for an advertiser to find its competitors' ads on SERPs than on third-party content pages.)
As for why AdSense accounts get terminated, any number of factors could come into play. For example, if a site seemed especially prone to "click vandalism" because of controversial subject matter or a hotheaded audience, Google might figure that it would be easier to close the account than to investigate fraudulent clicks over and over again. (I'm not suggesting that this is desirable, by the way; I don't think it is, but in a business environment, decisions are likely to be driven by dollars-and-cents issues.)
I am simply commenting from a business perspective, and others have agreed when this has been discussed in previous threads.
Just like in any business, you need to weigh the pros and cons. If there are multiple hours of auditing and checks going into a single account that might only generate $100 of revenue for Google in a month, would it be worth it for them to continue putting in the hours each month when the employee's wages are more than the profit? From a business perspective, no it wouldn't.
I don't know if this is what Google does or doesn't do, but *if* they did, I could see it from their point of view.
And what about those AdSense publishers who are putting AdSense on auto-gen keyword spam sites, where the only real way out is either to click an AdSense ad or click back. Everyone has complained about those, because it causes more Adwords advertisers to opt-out of content targeted sites. AdSense could consider those clicks fraudulent too, even if the publisher never clicked on a single one. Are those publisher's all that innocent even though they have can say they have never clicked an ad? (I am NOT saying this is what happened with tbird).
And all in all, if anything is going to be the downfall of AdSense, it will be fraud. It is better for publishers if AdSense does take a proactive stance against fraud, because it will keep Adwords advertisers opting in for content sites, and most importantly, keep the advertisers happy since they are the ones funding the payments that publishers receive. If the fraud problem continues, more will opt-out, leaving publishers with a smaller pool of ads to display, meaning lower earnings for everyone.
Looking back, when you consider how many publishers post in the forum, and how many of those have been suspended, it is a very small percentage. But those who are suspended tend to be vocal, and it gets everyone worried that it could happen to them.
ultimately if a site continues to generate a lot of suspicious untraceable clicks, what can Google do but terminate them?
I don't think anyone will argue with that, which is completely different than an execution on the first offense, without the ability to address the issue and attempt to resolve it.
And all in all, if anything is going to be the downfall of AdSense, it will be fraud. It is better for publishers if AdSense does take a proactive stance against fraud, because it will keep Adwords advertisers opting in for content sites, and most importantly, keep the advertisers happy since they are the ones funding the payments that publishers receive. If the fraud problem continues, more will opt-out, leaving publishers with a smaller pool of ads to display, meaning lower earnings for everyone.
Same response as above. I don't think anyone will argue with that, which is completely different than an execution on the first offense, without the ability to address the issue and attempt to resolve it.
Even someone who may only be generating $10/month in revenue deserves a little information and the courtesy of being treated professionally. Administrative costs associated with doing so can certainly be factored into the tremendous amount of income the program generates overall.
So how, with all the tools at their disposal, could G be way off on every ban? I would think that the majority of bans are justified. If I can track everything that happens with my system to legitimately identify fraud why can't G?
The AdSense invalid click team uses a combination of automated systems and human reviews to uncover fraudulent activity. As jomaxx stated, there's no algorithm that can completely filter out all fraudulent activity, so human reviewers pore through the data as well, and review each case from all angles before taking action. I’ve seen these people in action, and the data that they review - they work extremely hard to make sure that fraud is detected on one hand, and that valid clicks are recognized on the other.
If it's decided that fraudulent activity exists, the next step is to send a warning email to the publisher, not a termination letter. Immediate terminations only occur when severe fraudulent activity has occured. In cases where invalid clicks are coming from some outside source, you will be sent a notification, not a termination - this gives you the opportunity to check your server logs for suspicious activity, take appropriate action, and respond to the AdSense team.
Finally, there's always the opportunity to appeal a decision. If you feel that you've been warned or terminated unfairly, you're encouraged to send supporting information to the team, and they'll definitely take another look at your case and take any new information into account when doing so. I can understand the frustration with the limited information that is given to publishers who have been warned or terminated. Unfortunately, this is a necessity - we can't make this sort of information available without helping some people to develop ways to try and fool our systems :(
So, to summarize:
- Accounts are reviewed by automated systems as well as by human specialists
- Warnings are sent before termination, except in clear-cut cases of severe fraudulent activity
- You can appeal any decision by sending your information to the team, and it will be carefully re-reviewed
Hopefully this will help everyone to breathe a little easier :)
ASA.
Thanks asa....:)
[FUD = Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt]
I do have one suggestion related to this topic. In another forum there was someone trying to promote a method to defraud Google AdSense using some sort of automated method. Obviously this is something that would be of interest to Google. When I went to fill out the contact form in the AdSense control panel there was not a subject option for a fraud report so I had to choose "other". It might be really helpful in routing messages if there were a "fraud report" option for us to choose when we see something like what I saw that needed to be reported.
I'm sure that there are many AdSense users like myself who would be more than happy to rat out those who are trying to defraud the system to help protect its overall integrity.
Again thank you for your post and welcome to WebmasterWorld.
I'd like to know more about this. I'm afraid I'm guilty of not monitoring anything besides counting page views. I'd like to be more proactive about protecting my site and avoiding the risk of getting a "fraudlent clicks" letter from Google.
Can anyone outline what I should be doing and looking for?
I still have some worries, though, having recently received a violation of TOS note. My violation was for having adsense on improper pages not click fraud.
What heightened my anxiety was the automated note just mentioned "some of your pages" without providing URLs. Initially I had no idea what it was talking about until I discovered a down database connection on one part of my site.
If there is so much human review, how come I received such a generic email? I mean I am talking about a site with about 80,000 pages properly running adsense, and I wasn't provided with sample URLs of the small percentage of improper pages.
BTW the problem had now been resolved, but I worry I am on some type of watch list.
Warnings are sent before termination, except in clear-cut cases of severe fraudulent activity
So, when we see another post here of someone who says that he was kicked out without warning, he's a liar or a fraudster (or both). Right?
I bet we won't see many of those postings anymore ;-)
For my part, although it's encouraging to know that warning shots are normally fired, it's still disconcerting to know that it's normally all or nothing with sites running AdSense. That is to say if you're terminated, all your sites are terminated, not just the one causing problems. I've got AS on a few sites now but am about to launch my pet project in the coming weeks and I'm actually scared to put AS on this site under this account for the simple fact that if any one of my sites is deemed inappropriate for any reason, and I can't sort the problem out to G's satisfaction, they're all gone. Multiple accounts sound extremely seductive at this point, but that in itself could be enough to get the whole collection banned.
All this anxiety is driving me to drink.... :)
2odd...
Good Post, This is the kind of feedback thats been missing here.
If and when more advanced reporting tools become available it might be possible to set things up so that you can infer when certain clicks must have taken place, but right now that's just not an option.
