I've just subscribed to "Who's clicking Who" in order to satisfy myself that we are not being ripped off on Adwords (and Yahoo ads for that matter).
I've been paying particular attention to the reports (new toy ;) ) and notice that occassionally I'm seeing a double entry within 10 seconds of each other.
Has anyone here noticed this and investigated and found an answer to where the problem lies?
I guess that I have three hypotheses for this:
1. It may be a problem with "Who's clicking Who"
2. It may be a problem with Adwords but I'm not being charged for it.
2. It may be a problem with Adwords but I am being charged double for a single visit.
Any help or advice would be very appreciated.
Reagrds
Sid
I believe it's competitor click fraud. I've asked my account manager to explain how they detect authentic double clicks in a short span of time from competitors just clicking on my ads - not surprisingly, I've not heard back from Google on this question.
Click fraud on Google is on the rise - don't think for a second it is not. When CPC prices continue to rise dramatically, some advertisers resort to unethical tactics. People are clicking on your ads to try and 'run you out of town - run you out of Adwords'.
I have exactly the same ad positions I had 6 months ago, but not I have about 50% less conversion. What would account for that? Click fraud. Not 100% of it, but I'd say the majority of the decline. My product/offering is FREE - there is really no other explanation for my conversion decline.
I know from my own user behaviour when I shop Adwords I sometimes inadvertently reclick an ad I had just visited. I don't know how G handles this, but I can't be the only one who occasionally does it.
When I am paying $6 per click and I see someone click 2 times in 1 minute and then again once an hour later - well let's just say I am not happy. AND not unconvinced it's not competitor click fraud.
AND not unconvinced it's not competitor click fraud.
...trying to wrap my head around this triple negative. ;)
I've found you have to be creative with your language on this board lately or you risk getting deleted :)
I wrote and asked them giving a specific example naively thinking they might just take a look and see if they had charged me twice. I just got a boiler plate reply giving all sorts of possible answers to questions I hadn't asked.
I think that Google and others need to be forced to clean up their act. They need to say in what circumstances they do charge for multiple clicks and when they let you have the repeats at no cost.
If they don't sort it out I'm convinced that different countries will come up with their own laws to force them to do the right thing. In fact I may see if existing trading laws here in the UK could be used against them.
Thanks for the replies.
Best wishes
Sid
Why and How this happens is of less concern to me compared to what Google does about it when it does happen. Unfortunately there is no policy relating when/what criteria Google uses to filter our bad/duplicate clicks. Why? I guess they (rightfully so) are concerned that people would use this information to cheat even more.
The problem is that Google takes a very reactive approach to crediting Adv. It requires you to send them your logfiles showing these cases. Basically it is a manuall headache.
So, the only thing you can do is contact your rep each time, state your case, and hope to get money back.
However there are a lot of people who will click 4 times in 5 minutes who are not click fraudsters-just indecisive people who are looking around websites and reclick to check information. This is annoying but probably there is not much we can doabout this. The main thing is to stop the systematic fraud-and it really does.
Google isn't doing anything about small time competitor click fraud - and if they are they aren't telling advertisers about it. Like I said, I emailed my account manager last week about what their competitor click fraud policy is - and no response yet. Not hopeful that there will be one either.
The question is who is responsible for the theft Google or the clicker?
Best wishes
Sid
If nothing else, Google is an accomplice to click fraud.
Click fraud can be 1 click
When I click on my browser to request a new webpage, I am implicitly asking for a page whose links I am permitted to click.
If you feed me a link that it is illegal for me to click, then, at the very least, you are culpable for entrapment if I click it.
If you don't want me to click a link, don't feed it to me.
If that is not possible, ensure the "conditionally clickable links" are clearly marked in that way, and there are clear enough Terms and Conditions displayed besides them so I can make an accurate decision.
I appreciate that last point may run counter to Google's TOS that say do not draw attention to ad links.
But if you feed them to me, and you do not draw attention to them, and I click on them: how could that be fraudulent on my part?
FWIW IMHO click fraud is quite simply theft.
Clicking Adsense advertisements repeatedly on your own website may be considered theft. If it's not theft, it's certainly fraud.
Clicking Adsense advertisements repeatedly on an unconnected person's site is not theft, nor is is fraud. It may be irresponsible because of the risk to the Adsense account, but there is no crime being committed by the clicker.
Clicking Adwords on Google's own pages repeatedly is even less of a crime. If an advertiser does not want his ads clicked then there is a simple solution; deactivate them. It is absolutely certain that there is no crime, be it fraud or theft, involved in clicking an advertiser's adverts, even if they are a competitor. There is no request not to click on a competitor's ads, and the ads are publically placed as a clear invitation to click.
That's why the clicks are called invalid, not illegal. If anyone can be held legally responsible it is Google, purely because the clicker has not committed any offense.
On a related note, I only eat the meat at an 'eat-all-you-like' buffet, and I make sure that I've eaten more meat than the buffet fee allow me to buy raw.
civil litigation case against a competitor who deliberately runs up click costs
I really hope not. Not because I am involved in clicking competitors, I'm not. But because otherwise everyone who costs any company anything is going to have to worry about litigation. So far as I know it's not a crime for a business to lose money in its dealings with you - profitability is not a right!
IS willful and deliberate premeditated damage to our business, just as throwing a brick through window would be criminal damage
A window is not intended for bricking, nor is it accepted or legal practice to brick a window. A linked advertisment is intended for clicking, and it is accepted and legal pracice to do so.
A better comparison would be withdrawing money at the bank just to deposit it again five minutes later, and repeating it all day. It's perfectly legal, but it upsets the bank, and it costs them money.
- user searches
- user clicks your ad
- user clicks back to original search results
- user visits clicks on another advert or organic listing
- user decides the original site was better, clicks back and reclicks your ad.
The real issue is - are we being charged for the second click? I assumed google had filtering in place to stop double charging. Am I wrong?
arran.
It depends on the intent; if my competitor's intent is to cost me money and use up my budget, then I have a civil case against them.
Exactly - it's all about intent...which of course if tough to prove. My point is, what (if anything) is Google doing about it? I don't think they are doing anything about potential competitor click fraud - again down to the lowest level of 1 click.
Google isn't doing anything about small time competitor click fraud - and if they are they aren't telling advertisers about it.
Perhaps this is because they can't do anything about it without throwing away legitimate (repeated) clicks (ie. money). Click fraud can be easily made to look like ordinary surfing.
Perhaps you should switch to fixed fees. :)
Clicking Adsense advertisements repeatedly on an unconnected person's site is not theft, nor is is fraud. It may be irresponsible because of the risk to the Adsense account, but there is no crime being committed by the clicker.
I'm not so sure it's even irresponsible. You can't assume the clicker is aware of AdSense policies, or even that s/he is clicking on an ad. I've certainly read a lot on WW about how publishers are designing their sites so the ads are in places where people are more likely to click, and I've heard from many sources that a large % of people who use the web are not aware that they're clicking on ads. So repeat clicks can be perfectly valid behavior in many circumstances.
Now whether G should have a policy about how many clicks per unit time are charged is debatable. While it would probably reduce click fraud, it would also decrease their revenue.
This is why I'm an advocate of fixed fees, because they make things simpler for everyone. No vast infrastructure needed for tracking repeat clicks; no incentive to commit click fraud; no quibbling about what is "real" and what isn't.
Exactly - it's all about intent...which of course if tough to prove. My point is, what (if anything) is Google doing about it? I don't think they are doing anything about potential competitor click fraud - again down to the lowest level of 1 click.
How would you prove competitor click fraud at the level of 1 click? (Especially if the click was made off the competitor's premises.)
arran.
We occasionaly see CTRs of 200% i.e. 2 clicks, 1 impression, in some AdGroups. Our AdWords account manager has verified that this may be due to people clicking back and again on the ad, they say this "behaviour represents valid user behaviour" and hence the clicks are not refundable.
It is hard to swallow when we have proof via AdWords own reporting, that there are blatant multiple clicks from one user and nowt we can do!
