HB
Freq---
Just an idea for you to think about.
Thanks for your advice.
>A five cent keyword for someone elses account probably >won't be a five cent keyword in your account.
I know that, I just want some examples to get a hunch of into what direction I need to think.
>If the keyword costs a lot of money there is a reason.
>You might make more income off of keywords that cost more >money. I have paid up to $6.00 a click for keywords and >still made profit.
That might be the case for your business, but its not for mine. I simply can not spend $ 5.00 for keywords in order to have a chance of selling $ 4.00 widgets. And again, before thursdays update, I could use my keywords at $ 0.05 to $ 0.10.
>also, even before the change it was not uncommon to over >pay for a few days to get an a keyword going. Once you >establish CTR, you can start to lower your bid.
Is that true? First you over pay and if you establish CTR the minimum bid lowers? What a funny world it is.
I will give that a try, thanks.
But is there anybody out there who can come up with a few keywords that (in your specific situation) have a minimum bid of $ 0.05? I am asking you because whatever keyword I enter in whatever campaign, they cost me 0.20, 0.40, 0.50, 1.00 or 5.00. Nothing else, there is no middle ground. If you guys still have keywords working at 0.05 or lower, I might be doing something very wrong. Entering one of your 0.05 keywords in my campaigns might learn what my failure exactly is...
...But is there anybody out there who can come up with a few keywords that (in your specific situation) have a minimum bid of $ 0.05? I am asking you because whatever keyword I enter in whatever campaign, they cost me 0.20, 0.40, 0.50, 1.00 or 5.00...
humblebeginnings, I just wanted to jump in and underline a really key point about the new Quality-Based Minimum Bid system.
The minimum bid of a keyword is not a fixed amount that applies across all accounts. Rather the minimum bid is entirely dependent on how well the keyword is targeted in your particular account.
So, for example, if you take a keyword 'fuzzy widgets' that someone else has a Min bid of $0.03 for, in their extremely well targeted Ad Group - and then you put it in your Ad Group about 'bird foot polish', your Min bid is just about guaranteed to be much, much, higher.
AWA
This is the first time I have the honor, thanks for jumping in. I understand that the minimum bid of a keyword is not a fixed amount that applies across all accounts. However, it looks like minimum bids in my account are fixed, no matter what I do.
Every keyword I enter, targeted or not, no matter in what campaign or adgroup, always ends up with a minimum bid of $0.20, $0.40, $0.50, $1.00 or $5.00. Nothing else.
Sounds pretty fixed to me. Is this normal in regard to the new bidding system? Or could there be something I have done wrong? Note that some (many?) others have the exact same 0.20-0.40-0.50-1.00-5.00 pattern of fixed minimum bids.
As I understand (but forgive me for making silly mistakes being a beginner and all that), if the title of my ad is "Fuzzy widgets in Oklahoma" then "Fuzzy widgets in Oklahoma" should be a well targeted keyword, resulting in a low cpc? That right?
Now I put it to the test and I made an ad titled "Fuzzy widgets in Oklahoma" and entered "Fuzzy widgets in Oklahoma" as a keyword. Keyword and ad seem to be very well targeted, and no one in the world is bidding for the keyword in question. Yet is has a minimum bid of
$ 0.50!
I just don't have a clue how to get rid of these fixed high minimum bids.
Now I put it to the test and I made an ad titled "Fuzzy widgets in Oklahoma" and entered "Fuzzy widgets in Oklahoma" as a keyword. Keyword and ad seem to be very well targeted, and no one in the world is bidding for the keyword in question. Yet is has a minimum bid of
$ 0.50!
This does indeed sound like a well targeted ad group, at least in principle humblebeginnings - but it could be the keyword itself is not destined to have a high quality score in and of itself. Put another way, not every keyword is a quality keyword.
I hope you'll contact AdWords support and ask them to offer you some specific advice for your specific account, especially as regards keywords - since they don't need to speak in generalities as we do here. ;)
I also wanted to say a few words regarding a theme that I've heard many times in many threads recently, revolving around once-cheap and now-pricier keywords that 'no one else in the world is bidding on'. At the bottom line, in a system now built around the concept of quality-based minimum bids, keywords will no longer automatically run at $0.05 simply because only one (or a very few) advertisers are using the keyword. Rather, they will only run at low minimum bids if they also have a high quality score.
I don't mean to be overly blunt here, and forgive me if it seems that I am being so. However, in a system in which many tens of thousands of advertisers rush to advertise practically everything under the sun, it's worth wondering if there may be a reason that virtually no one is bidding on a particular keyword.
The new quality-based minimum bids system will still allow an advertiser to run on such keywords - but they now may be more pricy than they once were under the old system, because bidding is now quality-based. (In other words, the system is providing a financial dis-incentive to run on keywords that don't have high quality scores.)
The alternative to paying more for keywords that were once at a nickel per click is to actively explore other keyword options, that'll have a higher quality score, and thus cost less - while still returning a positive ROI.
AWA
not every keyword is a quality keyword.What makes a "quality keyword" then?
I hope you'll contact AdWords support and ask them to offer you some specific adviceI did that. She laughed at me as I noted in 'the big thread' that you're probably ignoring by now. That some support.
keywords will no longer automatically run at $0.05That has become obvious. No wonder G keeps the algo under wraps. No one would even try if they knew the truth.
Rather, they will only run at low minimum bids if they also have a high quality score.Again, what qualifies a "high quality score"? Aparently it has little to do with keywords being in the actual ad or the op of this thread would have no problem.
I don't mean to be overly blunt here,..Please do. Don't beat around the bush. We get enough of that from G.
it's worth wondering if there may be a reason that virtually no one is bidding on a particular keyword.Maybe because I'm the only one in the whole world that sells this particular widgit. No one else has rights to sell it. You would think that if I'm the only one in the whole world that can sell "purple with yellow polkadoted widgits" and use keywords like [purple with yellow polkadoted widgits] and an ad that says "We Sell purple with yellow polkadoted widgits", it would have a decent "quality score" (whatever that may be).
In other words, the system is providing a financial dis-incentive to run on keywords that don't have high quality scores.Oh, I see. G is now big enough to punish it's customers. Great. Congrats to G. You could have told us about this before it was implimented. But then you would have had to many complaints I guess and woudln't have time to impliment it.
The alternative to paying more for keywords that were once at a nickel per click is to actively explore other keyword options...You havn't been paying attention, have you. There are posts all over saying they have 40 thousand words. If what you say is true, many or those poeple wouldn't say a thing. They would just delete a couple hundred words that were not doing well and costing too much and would be perfectly happy with the words they have left because they would be the performers. But that's not the case. The words that were actually MAKING them MONEY are the ones that are being dissabled because of the mystery score. Jacking the price up is just G saying "If it's making you money, want my cut. Like it or lump it." If that's the case, I'd rather G just say that than to lie to me. At least I can make a decission then as to weather or not this is worth trying anymore. My widgits only sell for less than 7 bucks. I'm not going to pay 5 dollars for a keyword (THAT HAPPENS TO BE MY COMPANY NAME!) just to sell my 7 dollar widgit.
...that'll have a higher quality score...That elusive 'quality score' again. The problem with you saying "use words with a high quality score" is that there is no description of what qualifies. Just as before when you log in and find that message "the keyword was in trial or disabled. please improve the keyword" or whatever the message was. It was asking to improve on a WORD for crying out loud. Should I have called Websters and asked them to redefine it for me? That's what the "quality score" thing sounds like. It's undefined as long as G is not going to tell anyone what to look for in a keyword. It leads me to beleive that G thinks "If this bozo is willing to spend that much for this word, he's making a killing. He'll have to cut us in." Well, my spend is now 5 and a half times what it used to be. Dead keywords parts everywhere. It's a blood bath I tell you. I'll have nightmares for weeks. EEK! ;-)
Well, I'm done crybabying about it :-) Thanks for letting me vent. Not like you had a choice :-P
So, how long befor msn get's their ppc going? I'm there dude.
-Dr.X
As I understand from your explanation the new bidding system is based upon "the concept of quality-based minimum bids". This means the better you match a keyword with your ad text, the higher the quality of the keyword becomes, and the lower the cpc should be.
However, I told you that I have been matching ad text and keywords (I did this in many different adgroups about different products and services) even by duplicating my keywords in the ad text. But it doesn't change a thing.
The keyword remains fixed within the 0.20-0.30-0.40-0.50-1.00-5.00 pattern. It's worse; even if I change the ad text to a completely different bogus subject, the price of the keyword remains the same. Google just always charges me the same price for a given keyword, regardless of the content of the ad text. So putting time in optimizing (about 30 hours since last thursday, the lady is not pleased) is completely useless in my account.
And then you said something I was very confused about.
"it could be the keyword itself is not destined to have a high quality score in and of itself. Put another way, not every keyword is a quality keyword."
Huh? Up to now I thought quality of keywords was defined by the way they matched ad text. Now that don't work in my account you tell me that a keyword in "itself" can have a high or low quality as well?
As I told you I am a beginner in all this, but then what are the parameters that define the quality of a keyword
in "itself"?
BTW, I appreciate your suggestion that I should contact the
AdWords Support Team. I might just do that. But since I am pikking up the phone I might be tempted to contact the folks at Overture, 7search and Searchfeed as well.
(Just had to end making some kind of bad statement...)
Hmmmm...just run a search and the ad is still showing for now...
Although you sound a bit angry, as far as I'm concerned your contri to this topic was very much appreciated.
You obviously put a lot of effort in it.
My proposal to end the discussion here and start a new topic about what "quality in and at itself" of a keyword is supposed to mean was by no means an attempt to frustrate respons on your comments.
It was asking to improve on a WORD for crying out loud. Should I have called Websters and asked them to redefine it for me?
This made me laugh so much Dr X! So much so I had to register! Hope you're feeling better now you got that off your chest ;-)
I'm only a small fry advertiser but I've been reading this forum avidly over the last few days and suffering along with everyone else in their frustration over seemingly inane minimum bids on highly targeted terms and ads.
My term with the highest CTR though has shown a dramatic drop in CPC and now giving me the No1 slot so while I'm not going to be paying the £2.75 required amount for a keyword which to all intents and purposes is the same as all the others in the group (bar the town name - Salisbury in case anyone's interested) which are costing 3 and 5p - the news is not all bad.
Google support told me that it was because it was a popular University town on the eastern coast of Maryland! ...never mind that my ads are only targeted at the UK!
Oh and added: "Although we will show the minimum bid required to trigger ads beneath inactive keywords, please be assured that we are not raising costs". Scratches head...
And AWA - if you're reading - I would like a feature however where I could see when I logged into the account which ad groups had problems ie inactive keywords... would save SOOOOO much time...toodlepip!
This made me laugh so much Dr X! So much so I had to register!Well then I'm good for something. Brought a lurker in from the cold. Welcome to Webmasterworld or as I would call it lately, WWF SMACK DOWN! :-P
I'm not going to be paying the £2.75 required amount for a keywordConsider yourself lucky my freind. I hope it dosen't drift up on you. I've read some folks log on to find their cpc jacked up quite a bit after thinking they were spared by this plague.
Oh and added: "Although we will show the minimum bid required to trigger ads beneath inactive keywords, please be assured that we are not raising costs". Scratches head...What the.... yeah, um, what do they call that then? Unless he means that the minimum bid thing is only a suggestion? But he calls it "required". I dunno, I need to wrap my head in duct tape. It won't keep it from exploding, but it will help keep the mess to a minimum.
I wish you luck.
Again, welcome to the forum. I'm sure you'll find it quite usefull. I get lot's of great info here and have learned much (with the exception of when I ask AWA direct quetions ;-)
Ok, I'll keep quiet about that. It seems when I chime in with an attitude, less gets acomplished. But I'll be reading.
-Dr.X
