My ad had a CTR of close to 8%.
I then decided to add the exact match "keyword phrase" to the list which was already included as a broad match.
Seems like the competitors have now taken over my positions.
I'm not sure what happpened -
1 -- There are just more competitors to the niche outbidding me or..
2--I reset my CTR*CPC rank by adding keywords to the adgroup
I raised my max cpc to gain a top 8 position again but the margin will be slim to none. I will back down the bid after a day or two of data.
What do you think?
Your broad match had an excellent (in my opinion) CTR of 8%
AWA has said that if keyword phrase is searched on and for arguments sake, you were using all 3 match types for it:
An exact match would "trump" a phrase match and a phrase match would trump a broad match (within your AdGroup/Account).
So assuming searchers were searching your broad match exactly as written, the [exact match] is now picking up the searches rather than the broad match version.
Problem is, the [exact match] does not have the 8% CTR history of the broad match so you pay more for the top. Your broad match is being ignored, in effect when they search for the same phrase that was being hit heavily as a broad match.
If what I'm stating has any merit, it wasn't adding keywords that affected you, it was what keyword variation you added.
AWA or some other expert care to comment?
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This brings to mind a question that I've had for a while: All other things being equal with two advertisers, one has the searcher's phrase as an [exact match] and the other advertiser has it as broad (assuming equal CTRs, etc). Will the advertiser with the [exact match] "trump" the advertiser with only the broad match?
To clarify, the searcher has searched for the same term in this case though one advertiser has it as [exact], the other as broad. Any advantage there to Mr/Ms. [exact matcher]?
Any ideas on that one while we're at it?
patient2all
Will the advertiser with the [exact match] "trump" the advertiser with only the broad match?
Once the keyword is picked for each account that has a match, the accounts bid against each other, using the CTR from the keyword that matched. It wouldn't matter if one account had a broad match and one had an exact.
But back to the original question: If a single group has two keywords: blue widget with a CTR of 1%, and [blue widget] with a CTR of 0.5%, both using the default group max CTC, which one will be used when "blue widget" is entered as a search?
But back to the original question: If a single group has two keywords: blue widget with a CTR of 1%, and [blue widget] with a CTR of 0.5%, both using the default group max CTC, which one will be used when "blue widget" is entered as a search?
The broadmatch blue widget will be shown, it'll trump the exact because of the CTR.
To take this to further extreme, you can also trump your own local ads with national ones if the national ones have a higher CTR. There's not a hierarchy system in place.
To get around this for the exact, phrase, and broad matches, you'll want to set different max CPCs based on match type. This is pretty easy to do in each adgroup using the keyword filtering tool to select match type and then just redo the CPCs.
"blue widget" CTR 2.6%
"shiny blue widget" CTR 0.0%
(over the last 7 days)
However, even looking at just yesterday, "shiny blue widget" still gets impressions (but a fraction of "blue widget"). Shouldn't a search that contains a phrase that matches both always get the one with the higher CTR?
(By the way, all keywords in this group use the default max CPC, which in this case is 0.05.)
The broadmatch blue widget will be shown, it'll trump the exact because of the CTR.
I love this topic ;)
Ewhisper, according to this hopefully literal reply from Google from one year ago (equivalent to 3,000 algo years ago), I'm basing my statements partially on this reply cited below and my own observations.
[webmasterworld.com...]
I have been trying to figure out the broad match issues with Google -- here is their reply:Because you have [widget], "widget" and 'widget' in your keyword list, our system must decide which keyword gets the impression for each query. The reason that the broad match term 'widget' is not getting
impressions is that the phrase match and exact match are getting all of the impressions for searches that include the keyword 'widget.' The system creates a hierarchy, in which broad matches are trumped by phrase matches, which are trumped by exact matches.Normally, the only way for the broad match to accrue impressions is on expanded match queries. Right now, a search on 'widget company' will give "widget" gets the impression. If you remove "widget," then the broad match 'widget' will get the impressions for searches such as these.
It's unforunate the last paragraph of the post appears to be missing a word or two.
Possibilities:
1) Ewhisper is still correct that CTR is factored in
2) Google reply is simply wrong
3) Google wanted to "keep it simple" in their reply and left CTR considerations out of their answer
4) CTR didn't factor into which match type "trumped" back in June 2004
5) Match type rules do not take CTR into consideration when considering which option of the same keyword to show
Stating it bluntly, but respectfully, I think we can rule out Mr. Speed's two theories about more advertisers knocking him down (too co-incidental) or the simple action of adding keywords hurting him.
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Now in the below post, AWA and Ewhisper discuss my same theory and it appears the conclusion was that match type rules. CTR only comes into play if more than one keyword phrase qualifies if they're in different AdGroups (which muddies the waters insofar as this discussion is concerned)
[webmasterworld.com...]
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a) For this reason, does it even make sense to use all 3 match types for the same keyword(s) anymore? A broad or phrase match is initially treated as exact. This appears to be the general rule, I see broad matches that won't cover a query with an extra article used until the keyword has proven itself as a stand-alone.
b) If the broad or phrase match "loses" out on all the queries that show as exact match, will the broad match ever be able to accrue enough impressions/clicks to merit expansion?
c) When it's said that a broad match keyword phrase initially matches only for exact, is that system-wide or by advertiser or some method more complicated than those?
d) More actual knowledge (not theories and discussions) about how matching actually operates in practice is something that is owed paying advertisers. It doesn't lead to spamming, but to:
patient2all
1. When you first add several keywords with the same matching option to a group, and they have the same CPC, the system will start to look at the keyword history of other accounts.
2. Depending on how history has gone, and maybe a few lucky early searches, the phrase or broad will start to take over (in some cases, it'll be the exact if your budget isn't high enough, or if there are just a ton of impressions on some of the other keywords). Now, just because it's a broad match, doesn't mean it's actually being broadmatchd (this thread is highly relevant to this topic: [webmasterworld.com...] )
3. AdWords likes to settle on fewer keywords over more keywords. It's entirely possible to have an account where the broad acts like a phrase match, and the phrase match receives very few impressions.
4. Because the system is built more for keyword themes, then for any single 5 word exact match keyword (blue green widgets in villeland), often these get searches, but are trumped by the broad/match keyword that's 'taken over'.
5. If you set up AdGroups like (keyword / max CPC):
Exact: $1.00
Phrase: $0.75
Broad: $0.50
You'll see quite a difference in keyword distribution, compared to if every keyword had the same max CPC.
6. Something interesting happens to the system when you put the same keywords with different matching options into different AdGroups. (i.e. adgroup 1 has "blue widget" and adgroup 2 has blue widget (broad)). Google has a tendency to treat them like separate keywords or themes. It can be surmised it's because they're in different ad groups, but I've not tested the full relevancy of that yet.
7. The thread that AWA and I had last year (linked to in the above post), was highly relevant at the time. However, I've really started to believe that will some of the slight behind the scenes algo changes, that a hierarchy system is less important than the max CPC, max CTR, and how the broad match happens to behaving at the time.
If a hierarchy system were to be further established, I'd rather Google start with the region vs national as to what keyword is shown. And then treat them as different keywords. A keyword geo targeted is a much different keyword than one that's shown on a national level, and should be treated as such.
Enough rambling on one cup of coffee, thoughts?
--Removed the exact match version of the keyword
--Increased the CPC to get on page one again. I'll back it off again once my CTR builds.
Today after 300 or so impressions I'm at 3% CTR.
I also looked at my logs last night. The terms my ads were clicked on matched my broad phrase. I'm not sure if it means anything since most people would search for this product the same way. So my broad match was acting as a phrase match anyways. I did have a few broad matches that gave me some new negative keywords to add.
...it wasn't adding keywords that affected you, it was what keyword variation you added.
That is an interesting theory.
I think we can rule out Mr. Speed's two theories about more advertisers knocking him down (too co-incidental) or the simple action of adding keywords hurting him.
For this reason, does it even make sense to use all 3 match types for the same keyword(s) anymore? A broad or phrase match is initially treated as exact.
I'm wondering the same thing as well. If the broad match is treated as an exact match for 1000 impressions then what's the point of using phrase/exact matches especially if you have a good negative keyword list?
It's funny. I have been playing with adwords for awhile but this is one of the first succesful campaigns I have had. Before I was bidding on items that simply don't convert well or I didn't have the guts to bid competitively. I always tried to bottom feed.
This is really fun when it works and a whole lot better than waiting 6 months to see if your SEO skills have paid off :)
