Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 3.227.2.109

Forum Moderators: buckworks & eWhisper & skibum

Message Too Old, No Replies

How fast can you make money with adwords?

     
4:53 pm on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 28, 2003
posts:1175
votes: 0


I live in the affiliate forum, but I'm considering doing adwords more. My previous experience with it was a mildly succesful - I made returns of 10% by sending traffic to Amazon (digital cameras).

Well, I'm gonna start on PPC again. I'd like to have an idea of how you jumped in on PPC and how long it took you to find a succesful formula to set up profitable campaigns.

12:53 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 21, 2004
posts:62
votes: 0


I started about 1 month ago. Maybe a little more. Lost $150 to $200 in the first week or two - trying to sell Amazon CDs and DVDs.

But the learning curve is steep and fast. I'm now almost up to $25 per day profit. And it looks good for this week to go even above $40 per day. Everyone tells me that was the hardest part. I hope they were right! ;-)

Of course it helps that it's xmas right now too.

The secret formula? No-one here on the forums will give you anything on a platter, but many are more than willing to help you out and answer your questions. Ask those questions (specific, not general ones), listen to them and then DO IT.

And don't try to be too smart, I've found. :-D

Good luck!
-V

1:06 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 28, 2003
posts:1175
votes: 0


Hi,

thanks for the advice. Building sites for affiliate marketing isn't too different, except that with adwords there's always the additional expense in money while you're learning :)

Just a quick question: are you still making your revenue by selling Amazon products?

1:56 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 21, 2004
posts:62
votes: 0


No, I'm not doing anything with Amazon anymore. Or any small-margin items such as cd's and books. I know it can be done, but there are certainly much larger (and profitable) fish to fry with PPC. ;-)

Also, the BIGGEST thing I've learnt with PPC is: If it's not working within a reasonable time or amount of money spent, it'll never work. Move on.

How you define "reasonable" is up to you, of course.

Most programs can be made to work if you cut the heavy fat properly. This means lots of tracking and analyzing. Use all the tools at your disposal.

-V

3:36 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 28, 2003
posts:1175
votes: 0


Thats great, veroxii.

I started on affiliate marketing a year ago (but seriously about 6 months ago) and I'm close to $100/day, but one of my sites disappeared from the serps and so I might go down a bit.

One thing I'd like to ask is, do you feel you have a 'method' already, or is it still a lot of hit and miss? how many products do you go through before you hit a winner?

3:50 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 21, 2004
posts:62
votes: 0


Hey again, ;-)

$100 per day is awesome and is what I'm working towards for end January. And $500 per day for end April - which will be my Birthday and I want to quit the J.O.B. by then.

I have about 5 campaigns making a profit at the moment, to varying degrees. Anything from 20% ROI all the way to 650%. About 3 more that are being "tested and tuned". And another 12 that I abandoned which were losers for me.

This month I've been expanding - looking for new programs. Next month I'll be consolidating and trying to improve my existing campaigns. Increasing the volume will be priority #1.

I say give it a try. If you're pulling in $100 per day, re-invest $10 or $20 of that into PPC and see how you go. :-)

-V

4:06 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

joined:Dec 17, 2003
posts:150
votes: 0


and eventually if you give it up because the return isnt great at least you are building credit, hah. And you can get 1-2% payback bonuses on your cards for charges, too.
4:14 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 28, 2003
posts:1175
votes: 0


hey hi!

Just one last question, if I may impose :)

How do you find products? are these all from a single merchant, or multiple merchants?

I'm currently trying out 3 products, but they're all from the same industry and the same merchant. These are 'actual' consumer products, and not financial or similar, and I'm wondering if I should try it with other products with other merchants in other industries :)

4:35 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 21, 2004
posts:62
votes: 0


My campaigns are not for single products. It's per merchant that sometimes (not always) have multiple products. And in this case they are real physical items too.

Here's an example of what I meant before.

Start a campaign for widget_store.com

Now I make an adgroup for each of widget_store's products or if there are too many, catagory of products.

Then I wait to see what happens. Here is the tricky bit where I think most people fail. You have to KNOW where your sales are coming from.

Imagine after a week I have the following stats for my 3 adgroups:

New_widgets - $35 in adwords costs - $50 commissions.
Used_widgets - $20 in adwords costs - $15 commissions.
Broken_widgets - $25 in adwords - $5 commissions.

Overall we spent $80 and got in $70. Oh no! A loss! We're doomed.

But hang on, what if we stop promoting broken_widgets? Then we would've spent $55 and earnt $65. $10 profit.

And now the clincher. Even though we're positive now, cut out used_widgets too, and we made $15 profits.

So now revisit the campaign, cut the fat, and see how you can drive more traffic for "new widgets" to the site, because you know they convert well.

This all seems very simple, logical and obvious. But I imagine many people don't do it. You have to track exactly who clicks where and what they buy.

Hope that helps. :-)
-J

4:36 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 6, 2003
posts:208
votes: 0


ppc bidder - don't forget you can get airlines miles to for credit card ppc payments
8:32 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Sept 10, 2004
posts:321
votes: 0


hey veroxii, nice to see you here.

I agree with Veroxii, I also employ the same strategy from time to time but I'm not as discipline as him tough in removing the fat, although I did it once and it improve my profits, there was an entire adgroup that wasn't converting but was about 20-25% of my expense, imagine how much that was... hehe..

One thing to note also, there would be keywords that would convert at a high cost, they could convert much more than the others, maybe convert 25 clicks to 1 sale, but typically these keywords won't be consistent and there would be too much competition on it, and there would be times that you will get tons of clicks but no sale and you'll be underwater with it if that happens.

Anyways these keywords would typically go up and up, try to find keyword variations of this keyword, if you could derive up to 10 or 15 of it, you might have better result because it's a lot cheaper and you can afford to get more traffic to conversion maybe 10kw * 10 clicks = 100 clicks to 1 sale would still be cheaper than the high priced keyword.

I started with a goal about 3-4 months ago to make $100 dollars a month, for the first 3 months I'm either breakeven or negative but this month I have reached that goal. And I'm hoping to reach my next goal of $1K/month, maybe next month, I guess like Veroxii, I got lucky with christmas season... anyways all of this is maybe about 90% adwords ppc.

Well going back to your original question, you could make money with adwords as fast as the next day. The question is how would you find a proven product or campaign? There would be times that good hearted folks will throw the fish in front of you, but the skill to learn is how to fish.. so as they say.. test test try and try... :)

general rule 100clicks at least 1 sale if not chop it.

8:54 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

New User

10+ Year Member

joined:Sept 3, 2004
posts:23
votes: 0


Well Veroxii has a great idea..Now to your topic how fast can you make money with google adwords. Well brother, Not very fast. It takes a lot of trial and error. My first campaigns were stupid, dont get caught thinking that a certain store like "marshall fields" even though it gets 300,000 hits per month and has 3 ads, will bring you results, it wont. It has to be specific products. Yep i failed on marshall fields. If you dont know, well i dont know th exact address for some reason but google search "overture keyword popularity" and you can enter your words and how much they are searched. If you want get ad word analyzer, but i could do that work myself without spending 100 dollars. sorry im babbling good luck bro
4:36 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Apr 8, 2004
posts:177
votes: 0

It's all about the offer/product/merchant and if it converts .. or rather if you can get it to convert. I nearly gave up until I made a profit on amazon (for a certain popular mp3 player) until everyone jumped on the keyphrases I was targetting. I figured if I could make amazon work then I might be in with a chance and have gone from there.

Knowing beforehand which will work would be a really good trick to learn if I could - can be expensive, particularly if you really believe it SHOULD work ;)

Remember this stuff can be seasonal too..

11:14 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Apr 17, 2002
posts:304
votes: 0


I'd think, the key is how much capital you have.

To make $100 a day, at 20% ROI, you need to invest $500. Do that on Dec 1 and many affiliate programs make you wait until Jan 29th for your $$.

So, if you need to invest $500 each day for 60 days, then you better have one heck of sum of cash siting in a bank account or credit card limit. With amazon, of course, it takes longer.

Oh, and that doesn't include the risk of the merchant packing up shop and not paying you.

After the first month of trial and costly error, getting a postive ROI really isn't that tough; balancing the capital and risk is.

CF

1:51 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 7, 2003
posts:68
votes: 0


So, if you need to invest $500 each day for 60 days, then you better have one heck of sum of cash siting in a bank account or credit card limit. With amazon, of course, it takes longer.

My tiredness may be influencing my logic here, but why would someone invest $500 daily, just to result in a steady $100 net profit.

I wish I could afford to lose money like that willingly.

2:19 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:June 18, 2004
posts:51
votes: 0


I am starting small and very targeted with a niche I know extremely well. Since Dec 1 here is what I've managed

Adword = $63.97
Commission = $109.68

I have started applying the techniques stated above and analyzing a P&L by product. After tomorrows numbers some products may get cut. And while this is only $5.48 per day the amount won't kill the credit card and is allowing me to learn.

4:00 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

joined:Dec 17, 2003
posts:150
votes: 0


steady $100 net profit.

That is the key.

I wish I could afford to lose money like that willingly.

?

Well progex, that ROI would be cutting it close, but if it would be a stable and provable ROI why would you not do it? (The problem i would have is you may perceive a 20% ROI but there is some margin for error, generally i don't feel safe until you get at least 25% over a sustained period - because it takes so much monitoring effort to make sure things don't turn for the worse otherwise)

So progex, in one month you would spend 15K and net 18K. Now granted that is a big investment, but if it is from a large reputable company you don't have to worry much at all about getting paid. If you use an AMEX card you can more or less borrow money for a month interest free. So the lag time 'lending' out the 15K doesn't cost you much either, with common investment for a month on it you'd earn maybe $50 tops anyway, total chump change in comparison!

Where else could you get a return like this, it equates to 240% APR yield! My philosophy is sometimes you need to pay out big to make big. Lots of people trip up on this when they shouldn't, because the end math is completely in your favor. Some people are not willing to pay out big, but in my mind if you can do above scenario you definitely should! And after a while you have some cash reserves and so much credit, covering the 1-3 month lag / money gap is no big problem!

Just think it through too, you would net 36K in a year, which maybe wouldn't satisfy you but is more than what plenty people churn out at their day jobs!

4:05 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

joined:Dec 17, 2003
posts:150
votes: 0


BTW - at current I have a mid $xx,#*$!.00 'debt', but i have $'xxx,xxx.00'+ payable to me in jan/feb - so it's all good!

I love christmas.

5:49 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 21, 2004
posts:62
votes: 0


PPCBidder,

If you need some help, I can refer you to some people who will refinance your mortgage. ;-)

-V

5:49 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 28, 2003
posts:1175
votes: 0


The interesting thing about this technique though,is that (I would think) it's not always proportional that if you try out a program with $50/day and get 20% return, then it would follow that you can put $50k a month and get the same return on your investment.
6:31 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 21, 2004
posts:62
votes: 0


Yeah, this is true of course. I have a program that is 500% ROI at the moment. And made me about $500 from my $100 invested.

I am MORE than willing to spend $5000 on that. Right now. Today. But you only get so many hits / traffic. I think I'm at the point where getting positive ROI isn't the problem. It's getting the volume up.

I'll get back to you when I've solved that one! ;-)

-V

7:16 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

joined:Dec 17, 2003
posts:150
votes: 0


Yes, volume becomes a barrier. There are a few techniques you can use to squeeze and tap the market best you can though, and if you haven't already, you can always begin to think on a more worldwide level and try to tap those markets as well.

I can refer you to some people who will refinance your mortgage

No need, it's gone jan/feb - which is a great feeling. 30 year mortgage paid off in 2, much in part to adwords. I just hope aff > merchant doesn't disappear as well.

7:45 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 28, 2003
posts:1175
votes: 0


Quick question from the pros here:

regarding the traffic that you can squeeze in, do you always bid for the 1st place, or if not, do you try to when the campaign is proven to make money?

or, in other words, is there a 'sweet spot' in the position of your ad that gives the best roi, that is NOT the first position(as one might obviously think)?

9:10 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

joined:Dec 17, 2003
posts:150
votes: 0


do you always bid for the 1st place

Normally I'll tell people the opportunity is there to be had, but I won't give any details on questions like this because every additional motivated advertiser out there makes it tougher for me. This is general enough a question though. If you always bid for first place you'll go broke in a hurry unless you have some absoutely amazing product or program to push. Sweet spot varies for each keyword AND each advertiser, and i'm not trying to hedge on a response here. Sweet spot could be #1, #4, or even #11. It goes even further than this because for any given site you promote, conversion will vary. e.g. for a given keyword promoting Site A, the best position might be say #6, whereas for site B it could be #4. Don't get hung up on position and follow some common sense rules as far as bidding. It all comes down to ROI and proper tracking. If a keyword is break even at #1, you might be able to pull some profit by ratcheting down to 3 or 4. If a keyword has outstanding ROI at #7 or 8, you might try bumping up to 2 or 3 to see if it is worth it. In the end controlling CPC is far more important than fretting over a position or two. After while you will get a feel for where your words do best, with experience it comes more natuarlly. I have ads that run the gamut, pos. 1-50. As long as they return $ each and every one serves a purpose.

Ok I need to shutup, I just had some wine so stop bugging me.

11:17 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Apr 8, 2004
posts:177
votes: 0


I agree - there are no one size fits all rules, not even within one campaign. Each phrase will have its own sweet spot.

On the other hand I do know there are affs out there that would not bid more than the minimum allowable on anything.

Keep in mind too that as your CTR improves it costs less to get the higher spots.

It's all about tracking and optimising. Only your stats will tell you if your optimisations are ..um .. optimal ;)

12:26 pm on Dec 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:June 25, 2002
posts:81
votes: 0


I started as a full-time affiliate in Aug after dabbling since Jan this year. I'm not going to post any figures but if you get it right there is plenty of cash to be made. Here are a few tips which will hopefully help you:

- Re-invest everything. If you want to expand quickly put all your profits back (apart from putting bread on the table etc.)

- Get some decent credit sorted. If you spend £XXX on Google in a month and have to wait 2 months to see the commission then you will need some hefty credit cards.

- Anything with a positive ROI is worth pursuing if cash flow isn't an issue. I average roughly 150% ROI across 300+ campaigns. In general the larger you get the lower the margin will become.

- Pester Google for an account rep. Getting ads approved within an hour (thus chance to get a premium spot) without waiting a week or so is hugely valuable.

- Don't always chase premium spots. They can be very lucrative but I find ROI from premiums is often low from trigger happy surfers.

- Position = Max Bid*CTR is complete rubbish. I've done plenty of experiments, believe me, your bid is far more important than the CTR.

- Pursue private commission tiers. I'm not sure how common it is in the US but in the UK if you make loads of sales for a company you have strong bargaining power to get a higher tier than the average affiliate.

- Read the forums, the best source of tips you will find.

- Tracking every keyword is critical. You can make 5 sales out of 1000 clicks and think the campaign is useless. However, if those 5 sales came from 10 clicks on one particular keyword chase the premium spot on it, it could turn out to be a great campaign.

I'm hung-over so that'll do. Happy Christmas everyone and good luck for 2005.

Neil

5:33 pm on Dec 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 28, 2003
posts:1175
votes: 0


Tracking every keyword is critical. You can make 5 sales out of 1000 clicks and think the campaign is useless. However, if those 5 sales came from 10 clicks on one particular keyword chase the premium spot on it, it could turn out to be a great campaign.

this may sound obvious to pros, but how do you track converstion for each keyword? the landing page is the same for every keyword in a campaign, and that info is lost after a sale is made because we can't put any tracking on the 'sales receipt' page on the merchant side. The only thing I can think of is to put every keyword in a separate account with the merchant?

5:39 pm on Dec 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 7, 2003
posts:68
votes: 0


this may sound obvious to pros, but how do you track converstion for each keyword? the landing page is the same for every keyword in a campaign, and that info is lost after a sale is made because we can't put any tracking on the 'sales receipt' page on the merchant side. The only thing I can think of is to put every keyword in a separate account with the merchant?

Adding a suffix to the URL (e.g. www.URL.com?=blue_widgets) works well.

Is there any way to do this automatically for keywords that number in the hundreds?

6:52 pm on Dec 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:June 25, 2002
posts:81
votes: 0


If you want to do that for keyword lists in the hundreds/thousands just use the 'concatenate' function in Excel.
8:58 pm on Dec 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 28, 2003
posts:1175
votes: 0


Adding a suffix to the URL (e.g. www.URL.com?=blue_widgets) works well.

I think I'm missing something here. How does that help track which clicks converted into sales?

On the merchant's side:
page1.htm - landing page from the adwords ad
page2.htm - credit card page
page3.htm - order confirmation

Only when the user gets to page3.htm, we find out if the click actually coverted, and while the user is navigating on the merchant's site, the suffix will get lost.

Maybe I had too much eggnog.

This 33 message thread spans 2 pages: 33