According to the estimator I can never get higher than my opposition

No matter how high set the maximum cpc

[TheDave]

I started low, and it estimated position 3 and 4 for my 2 main key-phrases on this campaign. So I went a bit higher with the cpc, and kept going and going, but no matter what, I can never get past positions 3 and 4. I actually went right up to $100 (it maxed out at $90, but I would never bid that much you'd have to be crazy! :P) in an attempt to outrank them. But it still estimates position 3 and 4. So does anyone know why? I'm willing to try and outbit people, but when you reach the maximum bid and they still outrank you what can you do?

[webdev]

I dont believe Adwords places you position depending on the amount your pay, this is dependant on the amount of clicks your ad receives, so if you are starting with an ad that already has lower clicks then you will never reach a top spot until, your ad receives more clicks.

This is one of Google Adwords fortes....having money does not make you top, writing good ad copy does...

Their theory is the ad with more clicks makes them more money...

[Shak]

use a PPC expert to help you do it.

there are at least 3 that very regularly read these forums.

Shak

[WindSun]

Ads have kind of a PR also, just like pages do.

[ghostMonkey]

So far, out of about a dozen ads appearing between positions 2 and 19, I'm doing (by far) the best from the ad at position 19. :/

[TheDave]

Thanks guys. I'll wait and see because I believe the add I have written is good, and considering most of the adds it competes with aren't as on topic it should do ok in the end.

GhostMonkey, I wonder whether people scroll through the results, and not finding anything their eyes wander to the side and your ad at the bottom. Interesting observation, which I'm about to put into practice on a keyword that was 3 months ago empty and since I put an AdWord up it's now busting to the brim with adwords. If I make my bid 1c I'm guaranteed that bottom spot and I'm paying not much for it :)

[toddb]

This is great as I have an ad that is number 1 and I checked I am bidding the minimum so I thought maybe they were all just closing and reopening their ads to get out of being number one and thus getting the lower CTR to stay active. But I must write ok copy :)

[cabman]

We have a newcomer to one of our groups, straight in at #1.

Are newcomers given the benefit of the doubt, and if so, for how long?

[SlyOldDog]

Doesn't adwords work on the premise that you don't pay more than 1 cent above the ad below you? I may be wrong but I thought that's what I read when it started out?

That means I can set my maximum cost per click to a million dollars, but I'll only pay 1 cent more than the next guy. I'm only in trouble if he bids up to $999,999 just to force me to pay!

The position is something else. I think your average position is determined by how much money you earn Google.

To simplify it a little:

price per click * number of clicks = google revenue

So the ad with the best clickthrough rate will need to pay the lowest price for the top spot because he will earn Google the most revenue other things being equal.

Of course you can take the top spot, but you'll have to raise your bid to make it worth Google's while.