Regular Search (Avg 0.13 CPC):
~3000 Impressions / 40 Clicks / 10% Conversion Rate
Content Targeting (AdSense Advertising / 0.14 CPC)
~15000 Impressions / 30 Clicks / 0% Conversion Rate
industry space: low cost software
I'd like to hear about other people's experience with content targetting..
I'll post an update in a week or so.
[edited by: Shak at 12:52 pm (utc) on April 4, 2004]
[edit reason] no specifics please [/edit]
When I run my ads on Google only I get about 20-30 clicks a day for a "keyword", and 30%-50% become customers.
When I enable the partner sites I get about 300-500 click and 0% become customers. And almost all of them come from a website called Netster*com!
Now, I have never heard of this website before, and it is sooooooo suspicious - it is impossible a respected search engine like Google to get 10-20 times LESS searches and clicks than some website nobody has heard of!
It's obvious that those clicks are pure fraud! And I bet Google knows it (i have contacted them, and I bet others dito), but don't do anything because they all make money this way.
If the GoogleGuy happens to read this - I wish there was a way you could exclude your ad from showing on certain search engines, the same way AdSence has the option to exclude ads from certain websites of showing.
I would love to run my ads on sites like AOL and ASK, but because of this Netster - now I run my ads on Google only.
My advice to everybody who plans on advertising with AdWords - untill Google bans Netster - DO NOT advertise on the partner sites!
Personally, I am convinced that enabling your ad to run on the partner sites is simply throwing your money away.
I think this depends a lot on your category and the kinds of sites where your ads are likely to appear. As a publisher who's been with the AdSense network since it launched more than nine months ago, I see many of the same advertisers month after month--advertisers who range from travel agencies and accommodation services to major airlines, cruise lines, and tour companies. Those advertisers would have bailed on content ads by now if referrals weren't converting.
A good rule of thumb might be, "Will this ad show up on general-interest sites or niche sites?" If your ad is likely to be displayed on, say, a weather site that generates millions of impressions a day, you're more likely to be throwing money down the toilet than if the ad displays primarily on niche sites where audiences have an interest in what you're selling.
To use an example, if you're running ads for barge cruises in Lower Slobovia, your ads are likely to do well because those ads will appear mainly on sites that are devoted to cruising or Lower Slobovia. But if you're running ads for Britney Spears bobblehead dolls, you'll probably get a lot of clicks from curiosity-seekers because those ads are appearing in venues where the readers aren't necessarily Britney Spears fans.
Until or unless advertisers have greater control over where their ads run, you'll need to (a) test and see what, if anything, works; (b) wait and see if Google's new variable-pricing scheme makes content ads cost-effective for you; (c) work on ways to increase your conversion rate from 0%; or (d) bail out on content ads altogether, which may be the right decision if your ads aren't converting and you have no way of blocking junk traffic.
I have problem with those "partner" sites which run AdSense as a search engine results, and to be more exact - Netster, which pretends to be a search engine.
Here is an even better example - I currently run an ad with CPC $0.05 which had enabled the content targeting. With the keywords I use, on Google SERPs my ad is showing on the 4th page (this is how competitive my business is), but some how I manage to get over 20 click per hour, all of them from Netster. Now, on hat website my ad is showing after 10 ads with similar content, so how in the world would this be possible?
You say you have done this for a long time - so you know what I mean.
I am running this ad for a week, so I can print out my stats for that ad and send them to Google, and hopefully they will cut them off.
This is part of the DomainPark program that Google runs...
I will soooo send the print-outs to AOL, ASK, EARTHLINK and every other major serach engine using the AdWords!
If Google doesn't care about me (which is probably so), maybe when those giants see how much they loose by using AdWords things may change...well, sounds almost impossible, but somebody has to do it.
Or maybe I should start a website or something like that, build some kind of lobby...D*mn, I wish I had more time...
That is somewhat true - I have no problem with AdSense in general - it does help us make some extra money.I have problem with those "partner" sites which run AdSense as a search engine results, and to be more exact - Netster, which pretends to be a search engine.
Google's new variable-pricing scheme is supposed to address that problem by applying discounts to clicks that aren't as likely to convert. Of course, if you're getting a ton of traffic from a parked-domain site, a weather site, etc. that has a 0% conversion rate, a discount just means you're being ripped off by a little and not by a lot. :-)
Until advertisers can include or exclude specific domains, content ads won't be viable for all advertisers--although they'll continue to work well for some.
As far as advertisers bailing on content if it wasn't performing, some have and will but in the grand scheme of things many people/companies are still asleep at the wheel or just do not dig that deep into their results.
A content site, what's that?
A content site, what's that?
It certainly isn't a DomainPark page or a gmail message, no matter what Google may think. :-)
What Durant (efv) said. I agree 100%.
>I think but am not sure DomainPark is content not search
AWA said on msg #:14:
[webmasterworld.com...]
The ads are content targeted, rather than via search.
BUT it's actually both - at least it was in the early days. I did a test a few days before the DomainPark was officially announced by Google. My ads have been displayed on a parked domain - no matter if search was selected in my AdWords settings or content or both. DomainPark is for premium publishers so they obviously are treated different than standard AS publishers. That's the most annoying part of DP in my eyes - you can't avoid having your ads displayed on these parked keyword scramble sites unless you opt out completely and avoid all Google partners (search + content) and run your ads soley on Google results.
And, they don't explain this to their advertisers. Nowhere.
FWIW, my past complaints about DP:
[webmasterworld.com...] msg #:9
[webmasterworld.com...] msg #:24
Quality is relative. Google's quality standards are relative. Money (Impressions, Clicks) is the key that can change standards.
Sorry for the rant.
If you look at the home page of Netster - It looks more like a directory of the highest bidded keywords on the Internet. From Travel through Gambling to Insurance.
What makes me very mad is not that Netster is cheating with AdWords, but that Google knows it and supports that kind of misuse!
And those of us who make living by advertising our websites should do something to put an end to this reketeering!
It would help all of us if this kind of site/ad could be eliminated.
Out of 49 clicks I show 0 clicks from netster.
For content targetting I got one conversion today out of 49, which is actually meaning I am breaking even now. Should fund this experiment for another week.
This is versus 5 conversions out of 53 clicks for regular traffic.
Many advertisers forget that content advertising is a seperate medium for advertising. The traffic (depending on industry) may convert differently and you may have to have a seperate strategy for it.
Maybe those advertisers don't want to have a different strategy for such traffic. Or maybe they know from experience that the effort required to convert junk traffic isn't worthwhile.
Google's variable-pricing scheme isn't a perfect solution (after all, some traffic is worthless even at a discount), but it does have the advantage of requiring no work on the advertiser's part. Google does the testing and decides what a click is worth; the advertiser reaps the savings. For some reluctant advertisers, this will be enough to make content ads worth trying; others will remain skeptical until they're able to block clicks from so-called "content sites" like DomainPark, qmail, and Joe Yokel's blabbermouthforum.com.
If they want to or not the fact still remains that they probably will need to. Content advertising is a different medium. Just like the internet is a different medium than TV, print magazines, news papers. Many companies have found out that real world strategies don't work on the internet. Different approaches need to be taken.
The effort is no different than adwords. Many times changing the landing page and experimenting with it will make a huge difference. Many companies that have advertized on my content that I suggested a different strategy have greately increased their conversions.
"Google's variable-pricing scheme isn't a perfect solution (after all, some traffic is worthless even at a discount), but it does have the advantage of requiring no work on the advertiser's part."
I think it is a good thing but still needs to have adsense be seperated from adwords and treat adsense as a different medium. Advertisers need to have more freedom to run seperate ads and bid on content ads seperately.
I think it is a good thing but still needs to have adsense be seperated from adwords and treat adsense as a different medium. Advertisers need to have more freedom to run seperate ads and bid on content ads seperately.
Most advertisers, like general internet users are... stupid. I think this is the main reason google will never give a huge amount of control to advertisers.
So in some ways I think the element of what appears to be control leads advertisers down the path of expecting their Adwords advertising to be unrealistically efficient, especially when they hear a lot of comments about targeting.
Whereas what it can and should be sold on is the ability to know what the wastage is (unlike many forms of advertising), not eliminate it.
Most advertisers, like general internet users are... stupid. I think this is the main reason google will never give a huge amount of control to advertisers.
Well, those "stupid" advertisers have choices over where their ads appear when they buy TV or radio spots, magazine or newspaper ads, direct mail, and other media. Stupid or not, they're smart enough to know when someone is trying to sell them a pig in a poke--or a lot of pigs in a poke, in the case of Google "content ads."
Then there are ones that have some sort of idea, but they aren't programmers or developers, and can't develop a kind of tracking system they need to truely determine ROI. Finally you have the big spenders, that spend 1000's a day. They really don't care about ROI, its more about branding and bringing mass traffic to the site. The only ones who really care about being able to select content sites are those who are affiliates, or tiny companies who know a lot about online marketing. ie people in this forum...
Everyone ends up measuring ROI in some obscure way whether they know it or not, otherwise they'd run out of money and stop advertising.
I swear thats what is happening my market, there is at least a 60% turn over every week. new advertisers coming in and old ones leaving.
The only ones who really care about being able to select content sites are those who are affiliates, or tiny companies who know a lot about online marketing. ie people in this forum...
Spot on there. Easy to get caught up in puzzling about the complexities of online advertising with like-minded people, when the bulk of expenditure isn't rigourously assessed. (Have to keep reminding myself of all those hours spent in marketing / pr / agency meetings where the decisions were all more or less 'gut feel' and the clients just 'bought in' to the concepts).
That's not a criticism of this sort of forum, just have to keep bringing myself down to earth.
Finally you have the big spenders, that spend 1000's a day. They really don't care about ROI, its more about branding and bringing mass traffic to the site. The only ones who really care about being able to select content sites are those who are affiliates, or tiny companies who know a lot about online marketing
There are companies who spend 1-5mil/year on advertising, not sure if you consider this large or a small company, who track ROI from offline YP ads to the KW lvl on PPC engines.
There are some chains who also do similiar ROI research. Wonder why some stores collect your zip code/telephone address? They put it all into a DB, and then cross reference sales by dates & geo area to tv, print, & radio ads. They also reference stats from YP advertising to make decisions about where to put their future ad dollars.
It's not all about the branding. Branding is necessary for many companies, but you have to make a profit to continue to brand a company. You can't brand something if you're out of business.
