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Phrase Matching

High bid for phrase match and it still doesn't show up

         

realmike

6:35 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am having difficult getting phrase matches to show up when a user searches with addional words in the query.

for example
- I bid $7 per click for "tuna fish" (with quotes)
- the position estimator estimate position 1.5
- when I search in google for
- red tuna fish or
- asdsf tuna fish
I don't show up in any of the ads (20 ads are displayed - none are mine)

- if I search on "tuna fish" only then I show up where expected

What am I not understanding?

Ozdachs

8:52 pm on Mar 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have had similar experiences for phrases which should be competitive, but when I bid only $1.00, the estimated position shows 1.

The keywords are “[specific travel service] [city]”.

When I run a search for the keywords, my ad doesn’t show up but a lot of hotel directories and vacation rental services appear in ads. I assume that my narrow bid for “[specific travel service] [city]” is being trumped by large bids for just “[city]”. Or, some algorithm like that.

One time my ads appeared low down in the list days later after I wrote Adwords support. Support’s response to me was that my ads were appearing and that everything was normal. That’s when I checked and found that the ads were indeed showing up, but no where near the #1 estimated position.

(And, no, we hadn’t been running long enough for Google to adjust our ads down because of low click thoughs. I wrote Support after seeing <10 impressions for a competitive phrase over four days.)

There’s some magic going on that I don’t see explained on the Adwords site.

howiejs

6:01 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



"I assume that my narrow bid for “[specific travel service] [city]” is being trumped by large bids for just “[city]”. Or, some algorithm like that."

--- Interesting - but since you have a more targeted word - should not your ad be displayed?

So it is really the bid price that is taking over?

UpDown

6:12 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As I understand it is indeed the bid price that matters. All the ads that match the search are compared by the rank number (Max CPC times CTR) and the top ranked ads are shown. There is no bias towards ads that use better targetted keywords, unless of course their CTR is higher which will bump them up the list a bit.

UpDown

Ozdachs

6:20 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



>>As I understand it is indeed the bid price that matters.

That would be fine with me IF Adwords would show you the estimated ranking when you're deciding how much to bid!

howiejs

6:21 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



"All the ads that match the search"

So of there are broad match ads in there for
widget
which bids $1

And you have exact match for
[red widget]
which bids $.10 (10 cents)

And the search is for: red widget

Will the widget broad match ad - always dominate -- based only on its bid price?

realmike

6:41 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The problem occurs even if the addtional words are garbage (e.g. "****kkkttt"). I doubt anyone is bidding very high on "xxxkkkttt". But when I add that word (or any word for that matter) my ad drops of the scren entirely?

BPeru

7:00 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Realmike try increasing your daily budget. I had a problem like yours and that solved the problem.

vibgyor79

7:07 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>> the position estimator estimate position 1.5

Forget the position estimator. You are already running the ads. What are the stats for "tuna fish" at the end of the day? Is it zero impressions with no average position?

Also -

- Is "tuna fish" keyword "slowed" or "at risk"?

- Check your negative keyword list. Have you by any chance put "red" under your negative keyword list?

Suggestion -

Delete this particular keyword from the existing adgroup. Create a new adgroup with just "tuna fish" and tuna fish (broad match) as the keywords. You might want to carefully select and add some negatives too.

realmike

7:41 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



the avg position is 2.x
i do get a reasonable number of hits (presumably for exact matches)
I am nowhere near spending my daily budget
I have no negative keywords

howiejs

7:56 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I guess I am still confused "(presumably for exact matches)"

It seems like a broadmatch w/ a higher bid price always beats an exact match w/ a lower bid price
in rock paper scissors . . .

realmike

8:13 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



sorry - yes my term is a broad match - I meant I get hits when someone types in "tuna fish" without any extra words, then my broad match gets shown (because it has a higher bid than any exact matches) but if they type "red tuna fish" or "xyz tuna fish" I don't get shown

UpDown

8:48 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If your ad is a broad match ...

Initially a broad match ad only gets shown for exact matches. If it does OK then it is shown also for the real broad matches, then finally for expanded matches as well.

Does that help the discussion?

UpDown

webdevjim

8:56 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Where did you get that info updown?

UpDown

9:40 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



From reading this forum. Can't give you precise details of where, but I am sure it is correct!

UpDown

realmike

10:29 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Well that would explain the current behavior (and it makes some sense). I will track the perfomance and respond when I think I can verify it.