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Do I really need to use adwords?

Already #1 on Google,AOL,MSN, Yahoo.....

         

Lovejoy

2:22 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Just a question, If you already rank number one for just about every keyword related to your site in all the major engines is it worth it to use Adwords? I see my competitors jumping in and out of Over and Adwords all the time and wondered if the ROI was worth the trouble in such a case.

AdWordsAdvisor

2:39 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



...is it worth it to use Adwords?

Oh, yes. No question about it.

(Don't listen to me, Lovejoy. I work there, so I am a little bit, uhm, biased.)

But since there is no minimum spend, and no minimum term of service, why not give it a try?

(Too much coffee today, so forgive me. Couldn't resist being the first to respond.)

;) AWA

quotations

2:49 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Often, the adwords keyword advisor will give you combinations which you are not ranking well for and never even thought to check.

It is often worthwhile to try it just to find out how much additional traffic can be generated and what kind of conversion rate those phrases can generate.

I also find that [widgets] is a very useful term to buy when I just can't seem to break into the top 10 on a single word search.

I also find that a different kind of people look to the right than those who only look to the left. Having both the top place in the SERPs and the top ad in the Adwords stack can help to keep the competition discouraged.

TheDave

2:53 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As AWA just said, there's no minimum and the sign-up is trivial so give it a go. I believe that you may find a small increase in traffic, although I really don't any solid stats to back that up - just a personal opinion that if there's 2 links to your site on the page, you've doubled your chances of getting a click.

eWhisper

3:38 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



From people who decided to do ppc in your position, I've found 1 of 3 things usually happen.

1. They weren't as optimized as they thought they were, and were suprised by the amount of extra hits/converions they received.

2. Their clicks from the natural serps went down some (expected as your ads will take away from some of your naturally free listings), their ads did well, and combined they ended up with more traffic and conversions.

3. Their ppc expenditures pretty much just took away from their natural listings, combined they didn't get much more traffic, but they tended to break even or make a little overall. These people did recogonize the value of diversifing traffic, and as they paid seo's anyway, they just moved their budget around to compensate for multiple traffic means.

The advantage to trying it out (in addition to the good reasons listed in the other posts) is to diversify traffic. If you have steady streams from many areas, then a sudden decline in any single area won't overly affect your site.

Lovejoy

3:47 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Going back over my stats for the last six years over 90% of my traffic comes from only two, two word search terms. Checking on keyword popularity via Overture and others also indicates much the same thing. So I don't think there's much to be gained by throwing in a few obscure keywords. Part of it to is with a specialist site with about 3000 uniques a month there is not much margin when you are paying $1.60 a click and they buy a product for $2.95.

buckworks

4:19 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I manage PPC advertising for a manufacturer who has strong organic rankings for the most common name for his product, and several variants.

I use the power posting feature to set lower maximum bids for the [exact match] for those terms. TheDave is right that it's productive to have two links on the page, but we'd rather have the free click if we can get it. Positioning the ad lower on the page than the organic listing seems to give us the best of both worlds.

powerstar

4:34 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



AWA,

If you advertise on Adwords while your are number 1 for that keyword, will you lose your number 1 spot on the free results?

We spend quite a bit on Adwords, but our site is never found (or almost never) on the free listings results for most of our keywords, so I wonder if there is any connection between the two.

eWhisper

4:39 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



If you advertise on Adwords while your are number 1 for that keyword, will you lose your number 1 spot on the free results?

AdWords and Serps are completely different entities. One does not influence the other.

buckworks

5:16 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



If you advertise on Adwords while your are number 1 for that keyword, will you lose your number 1 spot on the free results?

Based on my own experience I'll say a categorical NO, you won't lose your #1 spot.

Adding Adwords to your marketing mix has zero effect on rankings in the organic results, either positive or negative.

KevinC

7:23 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I know personaly when I am in the market to purchase something I am more apt to use adwords then to use the natural listings - so I think you will hit 2 different kinds of users by appearing in the natural and paid listings.

Tropical Island

10:33 am on Feb 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



One of the big advantages with having an AdWords program up and running in conjuction with your regular serps is that with all the changes Google is going through you will have a program up and running if you lose posistion in the regular listings.

This has helped us through a number of fluctuations in the results.

powerstar

3:12 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



OK, so there is no connection. So how come our site is good enough to be number 1 on Adwords but no where to be found on the free results?

KevinC

3:19 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



because your paying to be there - quality of your site has nothing to do with your adwords position

cline

3:20 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



If you already rank number one for just about every keyword related to your site

Have you really done the keyword research to be sure of this? I personally haven't seen the case where there wasn't a bunch of minor keyphrases for which the site could not be optimized for and could not rank high for in the editorial serps, but could be very profitable PPC placements.

buckworks

3:30 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



With Adwords, you can buy your way to the top and stay there as long as you want. You can also earn a nudge up in the Adwords ranks if users respond well to your ad and click it more often than the other ads.

In the free results, it's not nearly so clear why a page rises or falls. Getting to the top ten is part science and part blind luck, and doesn't necessarily have much to do with the quality of your site as a human would perceive it.

PatrickDeese

3:42 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



One of my sites got nailed in "florida" - I immediately started to use an adwords campaign to supplement the traffic to the site - I targeted my main kws and tons of mispellings and oddball variations.

In December, I was able to get my site back into the SERPs but left the adwords campaign (I cut the daily budget back a bit) - but you will be amazed at how many people will click on your Advert even when your site is in the top 5 or so.

Also, I decided to target typos and thinkos - which has given me an extra 100 visitors or so daily, and on the cheap - no one else has bid for most of them.

Point: if you can get decent ROI from Adwords, in addition to having top rankings, do it.

Lovejoy

3:45 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yup, as I said, several years of stats worth. The obscure keywords like " green widgets with blue dots made in may" bring in less than 2% of my traffic, the vast majority of coversions from vistor to customer comes from just two keyword phrases. Since my site has been up since 1996 and has content that changes weekly related to my business, any keyword relating to my business has appeared in my pages at one time or another.

Lovejoy

3:48 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yup, as I said, several years of stats worth. The obscure keywords like " green widgets with blue dots made in may" bring in less than 2% of my traffic, the vast majority of coversions from vistor to customer comes from just two keyword phrases. Since my site has been up since 1996 and has content that changes weekly related to my business, any keyword relating to my business has appeared in my pages at one time or another.

cline

3:49 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The obscure keywords like "green widgets with blue dots made in may" bring in less than 2% of my traffic.

That's circular reasoning.

powerstar

3:59 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



>>>>Getting to the top ten is part science and part blind luck, and doesn't necessarily have much to do with the quality of your site as a human would perceive it.

You are probably right. I just find it interesting that and I just checked. For one of our keyword we are number one on Adwords, but and I stopped at 200 we are not found and there are alot of sites between 1-200 that are not even related to the keyword...not even close

If you look at it from Google's point of view why should they put me on the first page for free if I pay $3.00 a click?

Going back to the original question, If I was number one on the free listings I wouldn't touch Adwords.

Chndru

4:17 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>90% of my traffic comes from only two, two word search terms.
>The obscure keywords...bring in less than 2% of my traffic.
>my competitors jumping in and out of Over and Adwords all the time.

It seems your competitors are trapping 10% of your golden keywords and 98% of the other keywords.

>paying $1.60 a click and they buy a product for $2.95.
As PatrickDeese said, if you can get decent ROI from Adwords, in addition to having top rankings, do it.

And that ROI includes $ and time spent on it, Not just Adwords, Over too. Give it a whril and it may work or atleast, it will generate potential ideas for expanding your reach.

Lovejoy

4:21 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Well Cline it's worked for me ;~). I've done a lot of research on keywords related to my business and have come to the conclusion that oddball phrases generate a miniscule amount of business. The way I've always worked my site is to build products people are looking for in large enough numbers per month to make it worth my while, if the traffic doesn't warrant it (5000 per month) I'm not going to design or promote it.

Lovejoy

4:33 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi Chndru,

Actually I subcontract to my main competitors for a 50% split ;-). As I said before historically the obscure keywords don't generate enough sales to be concerned about. If you're selling Fords it doesn't make any sense to advertise GM's

cline

8:43 pm on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



If you're selling Fords it doesn't make any sense to advertise GM's

True, but it often makes sense to advertise Fords on searches for GMs.

Lovejoy

10:30 pm on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hey, even with the changes to googles results they are not that bad ;~)If you set your keywords right you don't get "Tire kickers", call it pre-screening if you like, but I'd sooner deal with focused leads and motivated buyers.

onlineleben

11:05 am on Feb 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>90% of my traffic comes from only two, two word search terms.
>The obscure keywords...bring in less than 2% of my traffic.

When just using your logs to determine keywords, you only get into the mind of people who actually found your site.
Adwords (and any other ppc) gives you the chance to think outside the box and use keywords/phrases that people might enter to search for your product, but your site isn't optimized for.
This doesn't have to be something obscure like your widgets in may example, but more like the ford/gm example in the last post by cline.

Lovejoy

4:44 pm on Feb 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



onlineleben,

I have been using stats from Overture and other such listings, plus software that checks search phrases in real time, and matched that with what my own stats tell me. The sum of it all has been that for the product I sell the keywords are well covered. This was the main reason I asked if there was any advantage to using adwords when a site is already very well placed in the search engines. I know my competition was all hammered by Florida back to page 20+ and appear to be using adwords to get back on the first two pages. The fact that they are in and out a lot leads me to believe that the ROI can't be all that great in my market. I know the only way to tell is to do a trial run, but having come this far without spending a penny goes against the grain ;~))