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Kwd CTR affects other campaigns?

Poor CTR in 1 camp disables kwds in another?

     
11:36 am on Sep 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

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I think I'm seeing something rather nasty here:

I have some very important top-performing keywords in one UK campaign pulling about 1.5%, which have been running happily for 9 months. I recently launched a different campaign for a different site and different product, targeted on USA this time, but using the same keywords.

This new campaign has overall lower CTRs, and some some of these good keyword are being disabled in this new campaign due to CTR below minimum. Fair enough. But :( I have just seen that the same keywords are being disabled in the old campaign, despite still healthy CTRs there.

Ouch! My Impressions and clicks on the old campaign has just halved!

Is this a real and normal phenomenon, or am I missing something here? It looks like Google is determining the keyword CTR for disabling purposes based on the CTR for all campaigns, not just for that campaign or adgroup.

Is there any way round this? The only one I can think of is to set up a new separate account, on whihc subject I want to start a separate post anyway.

1:05 pm on Sept 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

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As far as I've seen, keywords are individually disabled if they fall below 1% per 1000 impressions. And they don't disabled a campaign or anything else other than that exact keyword.

If you're having other keywords disabled, odds are there is another reason for it, and you should contact G about the issues, although they are good about sending emails with the exact problem when a keyword is disabled.

1:49 pm on Sept 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

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The search results for your keywords must have improved (9 months) in time, now surfers are probably clicking on those results rather than the your ads. I guess you need to change & tweak your ads.
3:46 pm on Sept 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Sorry, I wasn't clear enough..,

Ewhisper: It *IS* the individual keywords being disabled; the problem is just that they are being disabled across more than one campaign, seemingly because of poor CTR in just 1 campaign.

Baazigar: I've now checked the keywords report - they get disabled on both campaigns on precisely the same dates. A keyword dies on the old campaign on the same day it dies on a new one. :-( No way this was caused by gradual improvement in the editorial SERPS.

1:16 am on Sept 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

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This is a good topic that is worth some clarification.

Essentially, the automated monitor that checks on the performance of keywords counts the impressions, clicks, and CTR for a given keyword in every place it occurs within an account.

For example, let's consider the keyword 'slightly twisted widgets' which occurs in 4 different campaigns in a hypothetical account. If the combined total of impressions is over 1000, and the combined total CTR is under the minimum standard, then the keyword will be disabled in all four places.

Hopefully this will make sense if you consider that it is in fact just one keyword.

When this occurs, it is important to delete the keyword in all places in which it appears before trying to re-enable it. If this is not done, and you re-use the keyword, it will be disabled again very quickly.

On a related point, it is a wise practice to delete disabled keywords as a matter of routine, regardless of whether you intend to re-use them or not.

8:01 am on Sept 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

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"On a related point, it is a wise practice to delete disabled keywords as a matter of routine, regardless of whether you intend to re-use them or not."

Hi AWA,

why is that?

8:55 am on Sept 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Addendum to AWA's post -

After deleting the red-starred "slightly twisted widgets" keyword, start a new AdGroup just for this keyword, with a different ad copy.

Also add phrase matched and exact matched keywords to this adgroup. That is, this adgroups should have the keywords

slightly twisted widgets
"slightly twisted widgets"
[slightly twisted widgets]

Having three 'variants' of the same keyword will split the 1000 impressions between the three keywords. It won't get disabled quickly.

1:20 am on Sept 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

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"On a related point, it is a wise practice to delete disabled keywords as a matter of routine, regardless of whether you intend to re-use them or not."

JonBoy asks why this is so. Here are some headlines:

* A disabled keyword is not showing your ad, but can work against you because the performance monitor sees it as still 'active' - and this can effect your overall statistics. If you delete it, this is not so.

* A disabled keyword is also still 'budgeted for' by the system that calculates your suggested daily budget. This can reduce the number of times that your remaining keywords will show your ad, if your daily budget is too low to show your ad every time. If you delete the disabled keyword, this will not be the case.

* If you donít delete a disabled keyword, then delete the campaign it is in, you can't get to the keyword later to delete it. This will prevent you from being able to re-use the keyword at a later date. Gnashing of teeth will ensue.

* And finally, you don't have to look at that red asterisk any more. ;)

4:25 am on Sept 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Thanks AdWordsAdvisor, that's some great info to know. Reminds me of muds, only the immortals really know how some things work behind the curtains...
4:33 am on Sept 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Bye bye folks, I'm off to delete some keywords ...

dreamcomputersptyltd

9:25 am on Sept 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Great topic - wish I had read this post a while ago :)

AWA - one more question:

I have sometimes been in the following situation:

- I have a campaign with let's say keywords A,B,C,D: they are all performing well (> 1% CTR)
- This same ad also has some keywords E,F,G that are showing only very irregularly (let's say up till now they have been shown (eg searched for) only 40 times)

- Now I create a second campaign with keywords W,X,Y,Z and keyword W is performing very badly (0% CTR - 1000 impressions). X,Y,Z are below the 0.5% CTR and have only been shown, let's say 50 times

After 1000 impressions for the second campaign, keyword W gets a red stat, BUT keywords E,F,G,X,Y,Z ALL get double yellow starts.

The google statement for double yellow stars is:
Your keywords have a low CTR and are only shown at a reducted rate.

Now, my questions is: these keywords (E,F,G and X,Y,Z) have nothing to do with keyword W performing bad, however they still get the double yellow star. How does this work and what do about it.

Also, when you create a new campaign at this point (eg your google adwords account has the "restore full delivery" button shown) your new campaign gets affected by the perfomance from the other campaigns.

This just does not seem logical to me considering the new campaign has totally nothing to do with the bad performing one. The bad results of one campaign should not affect the results/performance of another campaign right?

My second question is the following (in response to the disabled keyword/deleted campaign): if you have old, deleted campaigns sitting there, and you start new one's and try to use the same keywords, is there any negative effect thanks to the deleted campaigns? This just seems a bid od to me.

Thanks for your help AWA!

Cheers
Roel

2:20 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Hey wait, that was two questions!

Roel, I'll do my best to get to this question tonight, with at least the outline of a response.

Stay tuned.

4:39 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

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This is a great question Roel, and the subject of a fair amount of confusion. I may have to go into it in more detail after the 23rd, but I hope the following will give you the idea.

Basically, your account is looked at by our performance monitor in two distinct ways.

* First, each keyword is looked at individually after it has had 1000 impressions. It hasn't met the CTR standard it will get one red asterisk, and is 'disabled'.

* Secondly, (and here is the real answer to your question) your entire account is looked at for its most recent 1000 impressions inclusive of all campaigns, Ad Groups, and keywords. If the entire account taken as a whole has not met the standard, then the double yellow asterisks are applied to those keywords which are a part of the pattern of overall low performance. Think of these as 'slowed' rather than disabled.

Many of these double starred keywords will actually work well, once allowed to run again. But you will want to evaluate them on a word-by-word basis and get rid of the clinkers.

Your plan of action here should be to delete all the disabled keywords, and then delete any double starred keywords which are getting impressions very quickly, while having a low CTR.

It doesn't take long for an account with a lot of marginal keywords to get 1000 impressions. It can literally happen in minutes. (Just remember, there are a minimum of 200 million searches per day on Google. They add up fast.)

So, the basic idea: avoid general keywords because they get impressions too fast. Focus on targeted keywords, because they get impressions at a rate that allows you to monitor, plus they give you a better CTR (and pre-qualified customers IMO).

Also, take heart: the CTR standard is actually quite low compared to the average CTR system-wide, which is roughly 2%. So, if you seek to be targeted rather than general, you should be in good shape.

A brief answer to your second question: there is no real negative effect (from deleted campaigns) to a healthy account, other than if you have disabled keywords in those deleted campaigns that have not been deleted - as discussed elsewhere in this thread.

Well guys and gals, I seem to have written a novel here. Sorry about that.

See you all on the 23rd!

AWA

dreamcomputersptyltd

6:19 am on Sept 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Thank you so much AWA - You have cleared up a lot of things for me in this area. I wish you a really good holiday and see you the 23th!

Cheers
Roel

 

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