Okay, here's my deal. I thought I was doing pretty good with the search engines. But I have the same number of items listed for Google and Overture. I am spending about 3 times as much (and clicks) on overture. All I hear from people and newspaper is Google this Google that.
Shouldn't Google be the one that is doing more for me. Am I missing something. Is it all placement. I will say all my overture are top 3s. But on Google it is harder for me to see where I stand. It doesn't look like the have a bid system, just a ave position placement or something.
I am starting to think I need to know more about ad words. Other than these forums, who teaches this stuff. I need a book or something. Anyone in Chicago looking for some extra cash : )
How do I figure out placement on Google or why overture is doing so much more for me.
I'm glad I found this place!
>> But on Google it is harder for me to see where I stand. It doesn't look like the have a bid system, just a ave position placement or something.
The main results are determined according to their algo, and no paid sites are included in them. They do run a paid ad program, AdWords (the boxes to the right of the main results, and sometimes 1 or 2 strips ABOVE the main results)
If you go with AdWords, you still put in a bid for position, BUT your display position is not JUST determined by your bid, but also by your CTR. The rationale for this is that if an ad is found useful by Google users (as represented by a high CTR), then the ad deserves to be more prominent
>> How do I figure out placement on Google
Try this thread [webmasterworld.com]
>> Other than these forums, who teaches this stuff
Recent thread [webmasterworld.com]
Each keyword listing on Google should clearly tell you the average placement of your ad copies. You can also find the average spots for each ad by checking the reports section.
NexQuoth the Croak:
"It doesn't look like the have a bid system, just [...] position placement or something."
Google doesn't have the same placement system as Overture. We're getting into two different camels here. :)
Based on my understanding, Overture places ads SPECIFICALLY and SOLELY on price (rewarding high-paying ads) while Google places ads by multiplying maximum price (NOTE that it says MAXIMUM price and not ACTUAL price... see footnote) per click by CTR (rewarding well performing ads equally with high-paying ads). Assuming that the field is priced similarly between the two (which may or not ACTUALLY be the case), a lower ranking on Google would seem to suggest that your click-through rates are on the low side compared to others. I'd run a search on some of your terms, checking how the interest bar on your ads compares to others. It also allows you to check other ads to see what's working and what is not. If you can manage to couple a high CTR with a high price, you SHOULD have the top spots locked up, and you should eventually end up paying less for them with AdWords discounter (again, see footnote). If you can afford it, you can also try to increase your bid amounts on Google, which may help lock in a higher spot, likely granting you a higher CTR, which in turn may grant you a lower price (making it one big circle of AdWords dominance). :)
Even though high CTR isn't specifically rewarded on Overture, I still think its good practice to figure out ways to maximize it. More clicks means more leads no matter which way you slice it (or which PPC engine you slice it with), which ideally leads to more sales. The fact that Google rewards better CTR with better placement is just icing on the cake.
IMHO, I think Google has a better design since it rewards well-written ads and not just companies that muscle in with the highest bids. Of course, that may be because I'm an individual and I can't really AFFORD to go against those big bad meanie companies. Even WITH Google's system, I still find myself muscled out by those big, impersonal companies a lot of the time. :P
As noted by Tall, Google and Overture serve different portals on the web, thus serving different demographics and people searching. If one works better than the other, it just may be that you have a better fit with one. Don't be afraid to pick sides if you see a significant difference.
On the other hand, if you're making money with both, I don't really see the harm in continuing with both as your providers. Both cover different areas of the web, so you really can't get a well-represented composite of internet searches without going into/staying in both. You can always lower and/or pause your Google ads if you don't like your results. I don't think you can REALLY pause the Overture results (I'm not an Overture member) since their stated minimum is $20 a month, but I don't think anything would prevent you from cancelling your account with them should they prove to not be to your liking.
You may want to create seperate tracking URLS to see which of the two is converting better, if you haven't already. If you're paying three times as much with Overture, you should reasonably expect three times more sales than you get with Google. Remember to compare sales as a PERCENTAGE of money spent with each company (margin?) instead of simply sales totals.
BeforeQuoth the Croak:
"Just joining this forum and boy do you all know so much about things. I feel I know nothing and I thought I was pretty hip."
Worry not, young grasshopper. One must be student before one is master. Even master was student at one point in time. :)
Don't be fazed at your apparent lack of knowledge. You have discovered a great forum here, full of great people more than willing to lend you a hand. IMHO, your knowledge can be as important a weapon with this sort of advertising as your pocketbook (at least on Google). With the PPC world (from where I'm standing) so overpopulated with mass-listing, untailored deal portal sites, poor grammar, and poor ad copies, a good head on your shoulders and a good ad copy on your computer can help you suceed as a small fry. Near as I can tell, its the best advantage that the individuals have. :)
FOOTNOTE: I mentioned before about Google's Ad Position algorithm and how it determined ad positioning by MAXIMUM bid and not by ACTUAL bid. What does this mean to you, the AdWords bidder? It means that you DON'T NECESARILY NEED TO SPEND YOUR MAXIMUM to get clicks with Google. Since Google discounts [adwords.google.com] ads automatically, a well-performing ad can actually cost you SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than your maximum bid. If you manage to lock up the top spot, your actual PPC should decrease even further. I've found that as long as you're in the top 5, you shouldn't have to pay your maximum CPC to get placement. In the long run, this SHOULD save you money. :)
