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Who is Espotting feeding

Lycos is lost!

     
9:46 pm on Jul 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

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I see that Espotting has lost the feed to lycos.

Apart from Yahoo UK and ASK (Which is a pain) what other big names are they supplying?

(I'm getting more from yahoo.com - Overture UK than from yahoo.co.uk - espotting)

9:57 pm on July 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Not much.
Netscape (Only one version for the UK), C4 the Sun UKplus plus lots of very small sites AFAIR
10:15 pm on July 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Are Yahoo UK and Ask not two of the biggest players in the UK?

It seems to me that it isn't bad considering that Overture UK must also be fighting for the same business. And with Google Adwords being used for Google, I don't suppose that there is too much room for manoeuvre in the UK market.

Is UKplus actually a big UK engine? People often talk about it, but I have never seen any results from it.

Has Lycos replaced Espotting with anything? I had a look but can't see any sign of PPC listings. It makes me wonder where they are getting their income from - a lot of the banners appear to be advertising Lycos....

10:18 pm on July 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

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UK Plus is posibly the biggest UK only engine, if you don't count ask that is. The only competitor would be Mirago which has its own PPC set up.
10:27 pm on July 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Bobby_Davro, welcome to wmw,

>Are Yahoo UK and Ask not two of the biggest players in the UK?

Ask is good but there are many other PPC players on those SERP's, the click thrus from the listings at the very bottom of the page may suggest that espotting could be a little more robust with their definition of relevancy. Yahoo UK are second division compared with the premier of the .com.

10:32 pm on July 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

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With a name like Bobby_Davro I shouldn't reply just in case!

Are Yahoo UK and Ask not two of the biggest players in the UK?

N0

Is UKplus actually a big UK engine?

No

Has Lycos replaced Espotting with anything?

They haven't yet but they will soon. The rumour is......

10:43 pm on July 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Hmm, we seem to have conflicting thoughts on UKPlus. I seem to recall that they charge a very large sum for inclusion in their database, but I can't seem to find the Add URL page now.

What about other UK portals like Splut or UKDirectory (they even do a printed version) - I would have thought that they would be on a par for traffic?

So, Hurlimann, who *is* a big player in the UK then...other than MSN?

10:44 pm on July 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

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and Google of course....
4:37 pm on July 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

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UK Home Users Reach as at March of this year
MSN.COM 43.3%
MSN.CO.UK 41.5%
YAHOO.COM 35.2%
GOOGLE.COM 23.6%
ASKJEEVES.CO.UK 20.6%
YAHOO.CO.UK 19.9%
LYCOS.COM 13.8%
AOL.CO.UK 13.2%
LYCOS.CO.UK 10.1%
GOOGLE.CO.UK 10.1%
AOL.COM 10.0%
LOOKSMART.CO.UK 9.6%
ASKJEEVES.COM 8.0%
GENIE.CO.UK 6.1%
BLUEYONDER.CO.UK 5.9%
ALTAVISTA.CO.UK 4.3%
OVERTURE.COM 3.4%
ALTAVISTA.COM 2.1%
ESPOTTING.COM 1.8%
4:50 pm on July 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

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hurlimann,

where did the % for UK reach come from?

5:57 pm on July 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Some nice numbers, thanks Hurlimann. As usual though, these are only user *reach* and do not reflect actual usage (Jupiter Media Metrix?). MSN always gets an unfair advantage from people mistyping domain names, or clicking the 'search' button on their browsers. Plus of course it is the default home page for many.

The numbers only represent the percentage of people who visit those portals once during a month, and not genuine regular usage.

I suppose what we really need is the number of searches performed on each of these portals, but I doubt that would be available anywhere.

Does anyone know how many UK Internet users there are, so that those percentages can be converted to real numbers?

9:58 pm on July 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Who powers Google.co.uk and Lycos.co.uk?
10:03 pm on July 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Lycos.co.uk have stopped using Espotting, and currently arent being powered by anu PPC company.

UK.overture has got the contract and is due to kick in soon.

as for Google.co.uk - its powered by Google Adwords and Google premium listings (premium listing via UK sales office, minimum ad spend £3,000)

hope that helps

Shak

11:03 pm on July 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

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>Jupiter Media Metrix?

Yes

>MSN always gets an unfair advantage

Agreed but it matters. We need coverage regardless of how MSN has gets it.

OVERTURE.COM and ESPOTTING.COM come very low yet they currently feed high level 1st page results to all but Google;)

1:53 am on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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I see what you are saying Hurlimann, and while you do indeed need coverage of as many UK sources as possible, surely it is better to target the portals with the most genuine traffic?

Those Jupiter Media Metrix numbers are somewhat inaccurate when compared to the actual "search hours" as defined by Danny Sullivan.

It is a shame that we can't get "search hours" numbers for the UK. I bet that Google would move up the list and MSN would drop dramatically.

It is also good to note from a competition perspective that Overture and Espotting have about equal coverage. Now the US just needs Findwhat to get a couple of big contracts to even out the PPC market there.

8:38 am on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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>surely it is better to target the portals with the most genuine traffic?

Agreed but it is more complex than even search hours when you take into account sector differences, home and business use etc etc.

8:45 am on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Espotting also feeds Looksmart UK (this might change with their new bidsmart PPC)It also fed Hotbot for a while but this must have been pulled alongside Lycos.
8:51 am on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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>Espotting also feeds Looksmart UK (this might change with their new bidsmart PPC)

Looksmart has said that once someone has bid on the term they drop espotting for the results and will soon drop espotting totally.
That said my experience is that they drop them from "featured" to the top of what looks like the backfill.

3:35 pm on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Thanks Shakil,
Maybe you answered this question already, but where do Google.co.uk and Lycos.co.uk get their results from after their respective sponsored listings. Does Google.co.uk use Open Directory too? Thanks.
3:44 pm on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Google.co.uk uses the same DB as .com with a button to return UK sites only.

Lycos.co.uk use their own directory then fast

5:23 pm on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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So can we summarise which PPC engines are running on each of those lists?

Espotting:
---------------
Yahoo.co.uk
Ask.co.uk
Looksmart.co.uk (partial and dropping)
Genie.co.uk (Now O2.co.uk)

Overture UK:
---------------
MSN.co.uk
Aol.co.uk
Lycos.co.uk (soon)
Altavista.co.uk

Google Adwords:
---------------
Google.co.uk
Google.com

Overture US:
---------------
MSN.com
Yahoo.com
Lycos.com
Aol.com
Altavista.com

I think that gives Overture UK a greater apparent "reach" than Espotting in the UK, but whether that actually means that they get more searches per month I don't know.

7:25 pm on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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UK Home Users Reach as at March of this year
MSN.COM 43.3%
MSN.CO.UK 41.5%
YAHOO.COM 35.2%
GOOGLE.COM 23.6%
ASKJEEVES.CO.UK 20.6%
YAHOO.CO.UK 19.9%
LYCOS.COM 13.8%
AOL.CO.UK 13.2%
LYCOS.CO.UK 10.1%
GOOGLE.CO.UK 10.1%
AOL.COM 10.0%
LOOKSMART.CO.UK 9.6%
ASKJEEVES.COM 8.0%
GENIE.CO.UK 6.1%
BLUEYONDER.CO.UK 5.9%
ALTAVISTA.CO.UK 4.3%
OVERTURE.COM 3.4%
ALTAVISTA.COM 2.1%
ESPOTTING.COM 1.8%

This really makes sense, doesn't it?
TOTAL 282.5%

7:31 pm on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Nell, "Home Users Reach" is one of these new economy stuff who theoricaly represent something but actually mean nothing. I much prefer to speak in market share.

Have a look at a realy interesting Stat for France: www.netbooster.com/indicateur_netbooster_juin_2002.htm

Anybody knows something similar for the UK market?

[edited by: engine at 8:24 pm (utc) on July 10, 2002]
[edit reason] de-linked [/edit]

7:54 pm on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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Nell, that is too funny. I didn't even bother to check the math.
7:57 pm on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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>This really makes sense, doesn't it?
>TOTAL 282.5%

It makes sense, kind of. Reach is not a mutually exclusive property. Pepsi and Coke can both have 100% market reach if we all know/drink/see them both every day. MSN and Google will both have 100% market reach if we all load msn automatically each day, and then type in google.com

Market share is a more useful metric. What portion of the surfing population actually 'uses' an engine as opposed to looking at it on our way somewhere else... if that's what market share actually means anyway.

ish

10:05 pm on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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"I think that gives Overture UK a greater apparent "reach" than Espotting in the UK, but whether that actually means that they get more searches per month I don't know." - Bobby Davro

On the search terms that we target across a range of sites we get approximately 300% more traffic from Overture than from Espotting when both are listed in position 1.

10:13 pm on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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<. . . have 100% market reach>

View from the people side of the fence:
If you visit or use anything there is a 100% market reach for that product.
Unless, of course, you only visited or used half of it, then the product would have enjoyed only a 50% market reach.
(Like drinking 1/2 the Pepsi or dropping off when 1/2 the page is loaded.)

View from the product side of the fence:
On the other hand, when products reach a different percentage of the people, the percentages should add up to 100.

Anyone want to play 3 card monte?

10:19 pm on July 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

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It's a horses for courses thing and also a value for money equation.

Some keywords cost peanuts on one and loads on another and the same in other instances. You need to understand the feeds (top 2, top 3, top 5, top 10) find the value and grab it while you can.

Frankly we don't care where the ads get shown as long as the clicker does what our clients want them to do in sufficient volume for it to be a worthwhile exercise, and the good news is that Google, Overture and Espotting do that, it's too early to say what Bidsmart will do but in time I am sure it will pay it's way.

Interesting times for sure.

8:42 am on July 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

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When is comes down to it though, you are only paying when someone comes to the site, so does it really matter? If it cost a flat fee like Yahoo, Looksmart, then fair enough, but as the both are PPC then you just go for both ;)
9:14 am on July 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

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ish,
"On the search terms that we target across a range of sites we get approximately 300% more traffic from Overture than from Espotting when both are listed in position 1. "

Is that using just Overture UK or does the 300% include Overture as well? That would mean that OvertureUK has 4 times the traffic of Espotting from the sounds of it.

Do you know where all that extra traffic comes from? Is it the MSN listings?

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