Moving to Mac...good idea or not?

Considering moving to Mac...tips or advice pro or con?

[Lvanhoff]

Hello,
I'm in the market for a new computer and considering making the the move to a G4 17" Power Book. I currently run my web design business on a Dell Inspiron 8000 with Windows XP. Does anyone have some general "great idea" or "terrible idea" kind of advice about this possible switch? It will be expensive to replace programs and make the switch, so I don't want to do if the general consensus is that it's harder to do web design or harder to run a business with a Mac but I find that doubtful.

I use the Macromedia Studio MX products (Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks) and Photoshop mostly. I will have to get Virtual PC to run Web Position on it. Other than that, I don't have any programs that are important to me at the moment.

Any advice about possible restrictions in capabilities?

The main reasons I want to switch are:
1. I want to start playing with Final Cut Pro
2. I am tired of the whole Windows platform in terms of instability, computer crashes. All my friends with Macs swear their systems are 100 times more stable and work beautifully for anything they want to accomplish.

Any advice would be be very much appreciated before I make this investment!

Thanks very much,
Laura

[your_store]

I use the Macromedia Studio MX products (Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks) and Photoshop mostly.

No problems here, and I don't see either of those developers abandoning the platform anytime soon.

I will have to get Virtual PC to run Web Position on it.

No need for Virtual PC. Just keep your old Win box around and use Remote Desktop to control it.

You might also want read back a few pages in this forum. They're have been a number of threads about must have apps and such for new Mac webmaster.

[Lvanhoff]

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Can you elaborate on the remote desktop theory?

Thanks again :)

[coolmacguy]

I have heard from many programmers and web designers that switched to the Mac. Their experiences are almost 100% positive. In fact graphics and design is one of Apple's primary strengths and has been one of their core markets for a long time.

[your_store]

Remote Desktop Client from Microsoft [microsoft.com]

It allows you to control a Windows machine from your Mac. Much better than using an emulator, IMO.

[The_Hat]

I can't see the wisdom of moving away from developing on the same platform as the largest percent of your viewer base.
Just my 2 cents,
The Hat,

[Lvanhoff]

Well, that's a good point. But what difference in reality do you think it might actually make? Can you see any ways it would matter? It's an interesting question but when I thought about it I couldn't see why it would matter but perhaps I am missing someting important. I am so torn about undertaking the possible headache and unforseen glitches and sure don't want to overlook something that might be a huge pain.

Thanks!

[Lvanhoff]

your-store, thanks for the elaboration, much appreciated.

[microcars]

I can't see the wisdom of moving away from developing on the same platform as the largest percent of your viewer base.

Well, can you run Final Cut Pro on the Dell?
If not, then its time for a Mac.

Tired of spyware, adware, security problems?
Time for a Mac.

What is the advantage of sticking with Windows for development? Other than viewing sites with an endless variety of Windows OS and browser combos to see how they look.

Seriously, what is the "wisdom" in using Windows for development if you are sick and tired of it?

If you don't "have" to use it, why use it?

[Lvanhoff]

That is SO much the answer I was wanting to hear :)

Mac time.

Thanks :) I feel more comfortable now. It's about twice the money to switch so I just didn't want to do it without having a sense that I wasn't creating a problem. Plus, I'll always have my Dell here to browse in Windows etc.

I am SO tired of spyware, adware, general windows BS.

Thanks!

[timster]

I can't see the wisdom of moving away from developing on the same platform as the largest percent of your viewer base.

As has been hinted at already, it's easy to check how a page will look in Windows using Remote Desktop or VPC, so there's really nothing to fear there. (On the other hand, it's more difficult to test how things might look on a Mac if you're running Windows.)

Still, when you write to a standard, rather than just testing, you'll tend to keep all your site visitors happy.

[Macguru]

You could experience problems is you plan to program .NET gizmos, else just do it.

You will need 2 months or so, to fully adapt to the grafic interface, but will be motivated, since it's not ugly. ;)

[Lvanhoff]

Good point! Thanks for taking the time :)

[coolmacguy]

I am SO tired of spyware, adware, general windows BS.

That's definitely one of the advantages of OS X. The design of the system is a lot cleaner. No spyware, no adware, no broken DLLs, no corrupted registry, no frozen processes you can't kill, no worms, no viruses, no annoying system popup messages, no cryptic driver configuration for supported hardware, very little maintenance required, very few hassles overall.

[Lvanhoff]

Wooohoooo :) Bring it on :)

Thank you everyone!

[jim_w]

The only problem I have seen with MAC’s, and it may not exist any longer for this was 15 years ago, was if you were a programmer, (and I mean like C), then you had to join the ADPA, (Apple Developers and Programmers Association), and while the cost to join was cheap, you had to purchase books on various topics to write real software. The books I needed cost about $500 each. The information I needed to write Windows software was cheaper to free on the net.

[microcars]

[developer.apple.com...]

[coolmacguy]

it may not exist any longer for this was 15 years ago

None of that is even remotely relevant today. Actually, it is more the opposite now. It's cheaper to develop for OS X than for Windows. Apple includes everything you need for free with every copy. For Windows, you need to purchase extra development software.

[jim_w]

coolmacguy

Are you a self-proclaimed ‘cool’ guy?

>>Apple includes everything you need for free with every copy.
I hope you mean license and not copy. Since I develop and sell software for food, I hate to see people confuse this, as do my lawyers. They are real picky about me never using the word ‘copy’.

>>It's cheaper to develop for OS X than for Windows.
Could you send me your market research that indicates this?

>>None of that is even remotely relevant today.
I don’t understand how your comments are applicable since you are stating the same thing I said. Must be me.

You are exactly right, that is why the Mac’s dominate the worlds computer and software markets. Once again, please send me your research as to the development costs and the break-even point, to include marketing charges and sales forecasts for your development predictions.

[mivox]

From a non-programmer's perspective (since I know nothing about it), I would say this: I've been using Macs since they came out, never had a problem using them for web development when that came along years later, and always had a fantastic selection of graphic design software to choose from, which covers my two main areas of interest.

There is no compelling functional reason *not* to switch, if you're unhappy with Windows, and the types of software you need are available for Mac. And hey, if you don't like the Mac after you get it, they have excellent resale value, so eBay the machine and switch back, no problem! (Or just email me, I'd love to upgrade my home machine... hehe)

If you're *happy* with your Windows machine, and you're familiar with that system, and it works for you, then stick with it... but if someone else is *unhappy* with theirs, why try to convince them to suck it up and keep it, when there's no harm done in trying something new?

[jim_w]

mivox

Kudos!

You’re exactly right. Each machine’s architecture may be more suitable for various types of jobs than the next, but one machine will not, and may never fit all.

Add to that what people are comfortable using, and you end up with what is the best machine to get a return on the net investment.

For me, it’s not a Mac due to the fact that in over 4 years of selling my ‘wares, I have had only 3 queries if there was a Mac version. Due to this, I could never get the return I would need to get after investing just the time, let a lone the price for hardware and the fact that I would need to be intimate with 3 platforms then, Unix, Windows, and Mac instead of just 2. And the more platforms, the higher the probability of errors in the code because there would then be 50% more code. One set for the Mac and the other for the PC. And yes, I have tried before to have one set of code for both platforms using conditional compiling statements, but that still would not offset the loss due to market shares. But, that’s just my story. Others have a different story.

[edit]
As far as web development goes, I am in the top pages for my main keywords, and get about 3400 different KW searches a month, so it works for web development for me as well. I have never had any spyware or viruses, etc. because I have been doing computer stuff before there was such a widespread thing and I know how to safe-guard myself. But once again, that is just me.
[/edit]

[mivox]

I have never had any spyware or viruses, etc. [...] But once again, that is just me.

Hehehe. Judging by the number of virus-related emails I get every day, it may not JUST be you, but it is just you and a small number of other Windows users. ;)

[Macguru]

>>that is just me.

Nah! All windows users never got infected by anything when they post in Mac forums. ;)

[jim_w]

Hey, I agree with you that there is a John Crapper pot full of people trying to get something for nothing, but if it wasn’t Windows, it would just be something else. Locks only keep honest people out.

The concept that if you have a less popular machine there is a much lower probability of having to worry about such things, I fully agree with, which is why for many years I would only host our site on a SUN box, but, Linux hosting became so cheap, that I could no longer justify spending twice as much when we don’t keep anything on the server worth hacking into anyway.

Same thing with the PC I connect to the internet, nothing on it worth getting. As a matter of fact, just while typing this, there was a Default Block NetBus Trojan horse attempt.

[sonjay]

Macs are absolutely great for Web development. The combination of Unix, Apache, php, and MySql makes my Mac a wonderful development machine. I set up all my sites with virtual host definitions, so that root paths, scripts, includes, etc., work just as they do on a live server, and I'm off to the races.

I have a PC sitting at one end of my desk for testing in IE, though. Given that the world mostly browses with Exploder on a PC, and particularly given Exploder's bugginess and lack of compliance with html and css standards, you absolutely have to do testing in IE/Windows. My PC accesses my sites on my Mac over the network, just as if it they were already live, so I don't even have to upload files to the server to check them on the PC. All my scripts run, database queries query my database, everything works just it would live, so I can test thoroughly on the PC without wasting time uploading and re-uploading and re-re-uploading.

Virtual PC would suffice for this, as well, but I find that I'm more comfortable running the PC as a separate box. Any old cheapy PC box is sufficient for this type of testing, and if all you're doing with it is testing your own sites, you don't even really need to worry about all the spyware and other crap.

I have to admit to feeling extremely smug when co-workers start sending warnings about the latest virus that's making the rounds. Since I never receive e-mail on the PC, viruses are just not a concern, period.

[coolmacguy]

I hope you mean license and not copy. Since I develop and sell software for food, I hate to see people confuse this, as do my lawyers. They are real picky about me never using the word ‘copy’.

Wow, I've never seen someone upset by that terminology. I think you are confusing "copy" the noun with "copy" the verb. Referring to a single software product as a copy of the product is fairly standard.

please send me your research as to the development costs and the break-even point, to include marketing charges and sales forecasts for your development predictions.

I'm not talking about all that, just the cost of development tools. You stated that years ago you had to buy books, join an Apple program, and whatever else. I'm was pointing out that you don't need to do that anymore. Apple includes everything you need to develop for free with the OS. For Windows, you have to purchase Visual Studio or a similar development package from Microsoft separately.

[charlienichols]

I use both, win at work, and mac at home and for freelance. They are both great, but my work pc has many more issues with updates etc, as is well reported.

My 2 macs run smooth, have usefull tools, all the same Macromedia software and are a pleasure to use...

Plus I do get to see how all my pages/sites look cross platform... it's good to test things out when you make significant layout changes on both platforms, plus firefox and IE, as they definitely treat html etc. differently.

Use both, but enjoy the mac more... 8-)
Charlie

[shiva777]

Personally I greatly favor PC's over Macs. I run a mac lab at my school and tend to have way more issues with them in general. I don't understand how Apple gets away with branding them as "friendly" computers. I don't find them friendly at all.

For web development it is very important to cross test your web site on all different platforms. I do test on a mac, but I would say it is absolutely essential for mac designers to test on a PC. The two machines just render type and pages differently even with the same browser. Javascript is sometimes an issue too.

Another advantage of PC's is the vast amount of shareware available for them. I can find a program (often open source) that will do most anything I want. I can't say the same for the mac though I have heard that it is improving. And look at a site like download.com...there is only a small fraction of programs available for mac as there are for windows.

And spam/spyware etc on a PC is not a problem if you are informed. Use Firefox for a browser and Thunderbird for email. I do and spam/spyware is no problem at all.

As far as Macs being "better at graphics"...that might've been true in 1986 but it isn't anymore. *Anything* a mac can do a PC can do too. Oh except final cut pro which is an excellent video editing tool that for the most part non-essential for web development.

Finally Macs are way overpriced. PC's are a much better bargain in terms of computing abilites per dollar. Sure it's hard to find a PC in funky lime-green but that is OK with me..I spend my time looking at the screen! :-)

-shiva

[Lvanhoff]

Thanks! Those are all great points and I appreciate it! I still haven't bought my new computer but keep going back and forth about which one to get.

Thanks for the input :)

Laura

[DerekH]

Finally Macs are way overpriced

I believe that there are studies which show that the Whole Life cost of a Mac - including the length of time it's used before writing it off as past it, the length of time spent doing things like virus checks and service packs, the length of time spent getting it repaired, and the length of time spent on administration show that the Mac is cheaper than a PC.

I believe one is also paying for quality - the external design and internal construction of my G4Tower and G5iMac are nothing less than classy.

DerekH
A user of both Mac and PC, but I'd never have a PC at home...