emacs - what's next; what's better?

is wysiwyg better than text editing?

[tilt]

I'm currently using emacs to write html. I only have one website that I designed and wrote and am responsible for maintaining so it's manageable. But just recently someone asked me to design and write a site for them, and I'm thinking I might do other sites as well. Is it time for me to move on to a wysiwyg tool?

I tried a few wysiwyg tools about 3 or 4 years ago when they were new, and I hated them. They all produced bloated html code and didn't do just what I wanted. Have things gotten better?

What wysiwyg tools are recommended these days? Are there any free tools? Does anyone still use text editors? Does anyone use both -- eg, use a wysiwyg tool initially, then a text editor to tweak the code? I pretty much use a pc, so the mac-only tools are out.

[andreasfriedrich]

I still use xemacs and will continue to do so for creating the html/php templates for my cms.

If I had to code every page by hand without a cms I`d probably switch to some wysiwyg tool.

[Woz]

I have a collegue who swears by Freeway from Softpress which has a more Desk Top Publishing approach than most other wysiwyg editors. Perhaps worth a look.

Onya
Woz

[tbear]

Hiya,
Eeeeerrrrrrmmmmm, sorry but I see the way forward as moving from wysiwyg's to hand writing code........ ;)
Why spoil a good thing with technology for the sake of it.
Just my humble opinion.

[stlouislouis]

Hi andreasfriedrich,

What cms do you use? Do you find it integrates well with your editor? Many if any quirks to work around? And on what OS?

Thanks,

Louis

[KA_Curtis]

Sorry tbear, but I see it the other way around, WYSIWYG takes the routine job of hand coding and replaces it with a graphic approach. Those people that hold on to the old style of hand coding are holding on to the "horse and buggy" of design, and should think about writing a formatted document before text editors, ie, MS Word, and others. It is a normal progression for technology to remove the tedious jobs that we are stuck with.

I would agree that not all WYSIWYG programs create streamlined pages (FP the worst), but it (if it is a good one) will allow you to do that yourself. I use Dreamweaver and when I started I created the worst pages you can imagine. It took me about three years and it was't until I understood the place wysiwyg editors had, that my sites became better. If someone uses it as a replacement for "knowing" how to build a site/page then the program isn't going to help, in fact may hurt the user's site. Tilt said that he knows how to write html, so a WYSIWYG editor will help him.

my 3 cents, one more than anyone wanted. :)

[tilt]

Thanks for the replies...

Woz, Freeway looks like a good tip, but it appears to be a Mac only tool.

What's a cms and how do you use it? Configuration Management System? Is it some sort of code generator?

tbear and ka_curtis -- I hear you both. I'm kind of on the fence with this issue. I think a graphical tool might speed things up, but I don't have confidence in the code that it might generate. Or, what if I modify its code and then run it by the graphical editor a 2nd time? I think it was FrontPage that used to over-write my hand-edits. Not good.

Nobody's using a good free tool?

[tbear]

All valid comments...
Tilt - I use
arachnophilia
it's careware so only requires that you care about something to pay for it :)
Takes the legwork out of hand coding but lets you choose the way to do it. I'm sure these wizards here can suggest others similar to choose from.
You can set up a browser alongside to see what you are creating as you work ala wysiwyg.
If you 'know' html then you should know what it will look like when you are finished.
Hey KA_Curtis, don't be sorry, we're all different. Horses for courses. I like tea, maybe you like coffee, that doesn't mean your anything else but different. Hell, that's whay makes the world go round... :)
And another cent from me.
That's what makes this place so cool. Long live WebmasterWorld.

[Woz]

>Woz, Freeway looks like a good tip, but it appears to be a Mac only tool.

True, sorry tilt, I didn't read your post carefully enough.

I use Frontpage all the time and have no real problems with code. As long as you use FP2000 or better, are aware of its idiosyncrasies and stay away from its bots then you are OK. There are a few threads here with great information on using Frontpage cleanly, have a bit of a search and you should find them.

Onya
Woz

[dingman]

tbear - How's the new Java version? Arachnophillia was the first editor I used, and it did a lot to help me learn HTML. I'm glad it was out there, even though I'm now such a dedicated hand coder that I don't feel the need to use anything but Emacs anymore.

[tbear]

dingman - dunno, keep thinking about updating it, but I kinda got attached to Arach 4.0.
<3 mins later>
Heh, gonna do it, thanx dingman, I'll let you know :)