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Copyright Nightmare

         

crazy_cat

11:22 pm on May 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Ok being a Web Designer copyrights tend to be a nightmare in dealing with contracts.

Here is an example of a web design contracts copyright verbage:

Upon final payment of this contract, the client is assigned rights to use as a website the design, graphics, and text contained in the finished assembled website. Rights to photos, graphics, source code, work-up files, and computer programs are specifically not transferred to the client, and remain the property of their respective owners. XYZ Design retains the right to display graphics and other web design elements as examples of her work in her respective portfolio.
XYZ retains the First Option right to the designed website. The client must notify XYZ Design before any changes occur to the created website, including all coding and graphic creations.

This is how I have been informed I should be dealing with copyrights and design. What I generally have done in the past is let the client change any content but if they want to change part of the design, not the entire design then that is where I say sorry can't do that. I will make the changes but if you want other designers to change part of my design then there is an extra fee for the original psd and other files.

How do other web designers handle copyrights to their work and turning over the rights to the client? Do you give the client a copy of the files including psd, etc upon full payment?

Thanks for any input!

JeremyL

11:37 pm on May 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I will not buy any work that I do not get full rights to once it is paid for. When I hire out, I hire a contractor to do work for me. Any work done during the time I am paying for, I own. I know thier are some designers that won't work this way, but there are plenty that will so it's not really an issue for me.

crazy_cat

12:04 am on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



That is the avenue I am taking with my new contracts. Before it has been half and half. If the client let me know before hand then I put in the contract they owned all rights AFTER full payment. But to save time I think I will go with client obtains rights after full payment.

I can just add the psd files and such to the cd I provide to the client.

walkman

2:15 am on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)



"XYZ retains the First Option right to the designed website. The client must notify XYZ Design before any changes occur to the created website, including all coding and graphic creations."
is this a joke? it's really funny if they intended it as one. (I know it wasn't you)

Otherwise, designer does the job, designer gets paid. Customer can do whatever he wants with the site he paid for. Not that it matters anyway, it's not like people are going to be sued for a few $100 site.

crazy_cat

9:15 am on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yeah really! The person suggesting the verbage uses it and has several clients. Go figure! I always ask in the first meeting how the client wants to handle it. If they want me to update the site on a regular basis then I explain that no one else can mess with the code and such while under contract with me for maintenance or I will charge an hourly fee to fix the code. Otherwise when you are done, paid in full, let them run with it.

Leosghost

9:31 am on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Your entire posted text allows the "client" to do whatever they want with any and all elements of the site ....the text is also self contradictory in many areas ( but never in your favour )...I would suggest that you do not work with this client and that you get your own "text" produced by a lawyer familiar with the web and design work ( look around ; ) and only work with clients who accept it ...All others ..leave alone

crazy_cat

11:43 am on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Agree totally that is why I am not going to use this suggestion. I mean my way has never been an issue and I always aim to please the client so why change?

crazy_cat

11:55 am on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Another issue that just fell in my lap. A current established site wants a few updates. They run server side image maps so changing the text is going to require the original psd file. They also have some other updates that will require the original psd files.

The problem, the current designer still works for the ISP that hosts their site, they don't know about the job being offered to me, the ISP won't commit to any type of contract on their end such as ISP auth for an ftp acct, payment terms, etc. yet the client has been told by the ISP that I am going to do this for them based on a submitted proposal. So the client is waiting on me yet I cannot get any contact info for the client, and ftp acct from the ISP or any signed contracts from the ISP. I have been assured by word of mouth that I will get paid, let's just move forward. I have stated in writing and on the proposal contracts must be negotiated and signed BEFORE any work is considered and the initial payment must be in hand before work is started.

So the little voice inside my head says run, run, run as fast as you can. I am sure many here have run into the same horror stories. The problem I have is the client I am sure feels it is my fault that this is not moving forward. Have any of you ever gone around people like this to contact the client directly if for no other reason to state your case and let them know it isn't your fault. You have time put aside for their project but you are just waiting on the ftp acct and contracts.

Leosghost

12:39 pm on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



So the little voice inside my head says run, run, run as fast as you can.

Do as the "little voice" tells you ; )

StupidScript

6:34 pm on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Indeed...listen to the little voice...

In 15 years of professional web consulting, I have seen many, many variations of contract verbiage.

Try looking at the situation from another perspective, one more familiar and traditional: you're a plumber.

The client wants you to start work, but says the payment arrangements can't be made until the city confirms their ownership. What do you do?

The client wants you to rebuild a portion of their w.c., but cannot provide the blueprints and pipe routing information you initially handed off to them when you built their home the first time. If you did not keep copies, and there is no reason why you should have, then they pay to re-generate those, don't they?

Once you leave their house, do you really care if they paint the room or not?

Be clear about your business relationship ("I produce exactly this in exchange for so much money/exchange"), and for how long the relationship will last. If you were never contracted to (a) return for maintenance or (b) maintain a set of document/file copies for the benefit of the client, then each NEW (yes, NEW) relationship you establish with that client needs to be memorialized and formalized AS IT OCCURS.

Your history with the client may influence your rates, or how much stupidity you put up with, but do NOT let it impact on the reality of your situation. EACH job needs to be defined and proper authorization enacted BEFORE you should consider beginning work.

If there is nothing in current (active) contracts that encompass this situation, then a new contract (a NEW relationship) needs to be drafted and agreed to.

What are they gonna do...hire someone else? Maybe. And that is, in essence, what they are NOW doing. You have the same info/files available to you that a new person would, and the relational contexts are the same.

StupidScript

6:52 pm on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



A quick side note:

My contracts include a section where we both agree that I am allowed to keep a single, static copy of the finished website for my own business purposes (portfolio), which does NOT include repeating the design or elements for another client. I have never had a client say "no" to this "personal copy" section.

Usually non-compete/-disclosure agreements take care of any proprietary development, and I now have a royalty-free version of my work to show other potential clients. The version I keep is pristine and bug-free (:), so I never need to worry about what changes the client will inflict...ummm...make to my already-perfect designs. (:)

Sometimes I suggest that since I will be involved in site maintenance later, perhaps I should keep copies of all of the production files required for that endeavor. Of course, the clients always agree.

The only situations where this is not appropriate are where you are hired to make content changes to an existing site, or are working as a sub-contractor.

StupidScript

7:24 pm on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Last thought, and this is just an aside:

I know it's tempting to think that because we are the creative people doing the work, that we have some inherent "rights" to the finished piece...most of the time we do NOT have any rights to the finished piece.

Us contractors are almost always involved in "work for hire", where the entity doing the hiring retains all rights to the work, and we are just hired guns.

That's a simple fact of our creative lives. You shouldn't worry about copyrights initially being under your control and then being signed over to the client when work is completed. Such a mechanism is usually put in place as a relatively transparent means of ensuring payment for services performed ("If you don't pay me, I take down MY website").

Contract law is NOT what I do, but I do know that if a contract if fair, balanced, and takes everybody's REAL rights and skills into consideration, the contract itself provides the enforceability one needs to ensure payment while keeping the issues of who owns what in perspective.

I know Leosghost can appreciate the subtlities of global copyright issues...judgin gfrom the "Interesting Copyright Discussion...", elsewhere in this forum.
:)