Forum Moderators: not2easy
But if a particular page contains clearly unique original content, that is clearly marked as copyright, What can be done?
Afterall, duplicate content on the Internet not only steals traffic, isn't it also possible to harm search engine rankings? And if one site steals content, and removes the copyright notice, others will steal it from there, and on it goes.
So, what can be done? Could a search engine be persuaded to ban a site that can be shown to be violating copyright? Is it effective to email all the sites that link to the violator, and ask them to remove their links?
I'd like to hear whatever suggetions and experience other people have had. Thanks.
My experience may, however, have something to do with my judgements about what a copyrigt infringement is and what isn't.
If I'm unable to resolve the issue I'd call in the lawyers and involve the infringers ISP. It's quite simple, really - and would cost some money.
Of course, there are many blatant copyright violations on the Web. If you find that your text, photos, or other copyrighted material has been used by another Web site, I'd suggest the following sequence of actions:
1) Write to the Webmaster. Be polite but firm; state that such-and-such is copyrighted material, and that you expect it to be removed or paid for (at whatever rate you'd like to set) by such-and-such a date.
2) If that fails, write to the offender's ISP and explain the problem. Supply URLs of the offending pages, refer the ISP to the corresponding pages on your site, and state that you want the offending material removed immediately in accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).
3) If that fails, you can check to see if the offending pages are in search engines, and you can then file a complaint with the search engines, demanding that they remove their links to the offending pages in accordance with the DMCA. (See Google's page on DMCA compliance for more on this.)
4) If that fails, your only recourse will be to (a) live with the infringement or (b) hire a lawyer.
Other things to consider:
1) Copyright doesn't have to be registered to be valid, but registration will entitle you to statutory damages (which can be much higher than real damages) if it's done early enough.
2) It may be hard to justify the cost of suing the owner of a "hobby site" or a small-time commercial site that gets very little traffic (especially if you aren't entitled to statutory damages). Large commercial Web sites are another story. Along with other infringement victims, I'm currently suing a "Media Metrix Top 10" Web site for violations that include copyright infringement, and the collective damages (both statutory and real) could run into the millions of dollars.
Two followup questions have come to mind.
- If you can't sue for statutory damages, only actual damages, can you at least also sue for an amount that includes legal fees?
- To find the hosting company of the violating website and the ISP of the webmaster, what resources do you recommend?
To find the hosting company of the violating website and the ISP of the webmaster, what resources do you recommend?
It depends on the domain in question. Some ccTLDs have a very structured and high quality registry, most TLDs don't.
After checking the domain registry I usually check get the IP address and look up the owner of that address using the appropriate RIR (Regional Internet Registry). That would either be the hosting ISP or they're able to identify the hosting ISP renting that IP address from them (if there is a hosting ISP, sometimes there isn't).
I just wanted to thank you hstyri and europeforvisitors for your feedback and input. I’m grateful you took the time to respond.
Here are a few discussions that may merit your attention. I hope you find something useful in these.
- PageRank of 8 from stolen content [webmasterworld.com]
Someone’s ripped off my site! [webmasterworld.com]
World copyright treaty to be enforced by March [webmasterworld.com]
US Supreme Court says e-copyright still belongs to the author [webmasterworld.com]
Online Plagiarism [webmasterworld.com]
Copyright issues [webmasterworld.com]
Copyright Protests [webmasterworld.com]
These are just a few highlights of the site search on the top of the page. This is a subject we talk about and so it’s ok to know that there’s a lot there and feel free to revisit any topic we’ve been there with already.
Here were some of the tips from those threads:
- A screenshot of a Google cache of the violating site, can be good evidence that infringment occurred and harm resulted.
- Taking screenshots of your own material is useful also.
- Several good letters were given as examples, to send to hosting companies and search engines.
- If your own emails to the offending webmaster don't immediately succeed, a stern letter from a lawyer usually seems to do the trick.
(edited by: engine at 7:40 am (utc) on May 15, 2002)
I am sorry to hear you are suffering with this situation. It is always best to try to deal with this without resort to other action, however, you'll find some useful information in the post by Paynt a couple of posts above this one.
A great way to find violators is to grab 10-15 words at random from your page and pop them into Google.
When I find a violator, I look at their site. If they suck, I send a letter to them and their isp demanding that their site be removed immediately. The law states that the ISP must immediately remove the site until the owner can prove that they did not copy the content.
If they are cool, I send them an email stating that while I appreciate that they found my article/content helpful, I do require full credit for my work. I request that they either (1) put a link to my web page and completely reference the content or (2) remove the content and put a link to my site so that their visitors still get the benefit of our content.
If they decide to just delete the content, I send a letter to their ISP notifying them of the violation and asking that the site be removed. I attach a copy of the violator's html code with the copied content.
This even worked when an About.com editor had taken several of my articles and completely copied them for her page. She also put them on her personal page.
We all need to be vigilant about copying on the web.
My office mate and I were laughing at it because the writing style differed drastically from paragraph to paragraph. It was obvious that he had copied content from many different places.
I stopped laughing when I found part of my WDJ article included without attribution. I did a little more research and found that the paragraphs immediately before my stuff had been lifted from the spider-food site.
So I contacted the Marketing and Sales manager and the CEO of the Web company, explained that their author had copied content from at least two other sites - without even changing the wording! - and passed that work off as his own. I sent them links to the other sites and particularly noted the copyright notices on each page.
The did take down the article, but I subsequently got an email from the so-called author. His excuse: "I never read your article. Perhaps somebody else copied your article and I read it on their site."
So if he stole stolen work, then it's ok? I couldn't believe it. I ended our little exchange with a link to the dictionary definition of plaragarism.
And I "Google" him every month or so so make sure he's not stealing anything else - at least from me.
Funny, I've had people tell me the exact same thing, and it has turned out to be true at times - that means you can take down the site that copied you and the site that copied the site that copied you!
Lets start with this… I now use a website called www.turnitin.com or iParadigms.com, which is used by educators to track down plagiarism.
I have been using this since it was brought to my attention a while ago that a UK site was using my site content.
How to handle this?
Based on my past experience.
A while ago I confronted the UK company website about the fact they are using my web textual content on their site. I made them away of the copyright issue and their use of my content on their site. I got a reply within a few days - They up front and boldly denied it! What shocked me was the comment – “Prove to us it is your worlds.”
Gulp.. How would I prove it was all my work?
So needless to say I was frustrated and very much, and at loss of words. I contacted a few publishing companies, and checked the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and I could not find anything to support myself in this situation.
It came down to this from what I found…
The fact that we put “Copyright 2002 Some Company, Inc. All rights reserved.” does not totally protect us. If we truly want something copyright we have to submit it in and get it officially copyright in order to establish that content as novel in its own right. So how does one protect their content from theft? If we have to submit our content for official copyright then it can get darn expensive!
Back to the Company.
I tried to explain to the UK Company that their developer took my words from my website verbatim. I convinced the owner with a snapshot of my ftp of my file creation date. I knew theirs was older then mine…
The owner was bitter, but said he would have to confirm it all with their developer. Finally – no apology made, I got a reply “We made the changes, we hope we satisfy your company complaint.”
In all… within a week they had altered the same text, making changes so that it was more theirs. I was still upset, but hey.. they had to make the changes.. they were busted, and a complement to me that my work (which my English is not the best) was good enough to be taken!
The Question is… How does one prove their content against someone who has lifted it?
Potential Solution?
Giving it more through – could FTP Snapshots – affordably provide the protection we need? I don’t think server file creation dates can be altered, but then I have never tried?
-eboda
So if he stole stolen work, then it's ok? I couldn't believe it. I ended our little exchange with a link to the dictionary definition of plaragarism.
Back when I was teaching, I had a student whose paper committed both plagiarism and fraud in the same paper (Never cite page 230 of a book that only has 140 pages--your prof might actually know the book or check it at the library. :).)
Anyway, I had a meeting with the student, the department chair, the head of the writing program, and his academic advisor. After preliminaries, the student begins his defense by passing out a two-page statement that begins, "This paper can not commit fraud, because I paid good money for it." The document rambled onwards from this auspicious start, but essentially, he portrayed himself as an aggrieved consumer. He was upset that the person who had sold him the paper had conducted sloppy research.
Apparently, he didn't stop to think that someone who would sell a paper might also cut other corners :)
Its the WayBackMachine, which had taken enough snapshots of my pages to reasonably prove that my content preceeded the stuff on the other sites. This was more valuable than the creation dates of my files on the web server, which change whenever you change hosts.
If you get into a situation where the violator says "prove you're the original author", thats a nightmare. I've been so annoyed by this recurring problem, that I did use the services of the copyrightwebsite.com.
We send an email which clearly states that we have recently discovered the offending material, what the material is, where it is located on both their web site and our web site, our copyright statement to the material "ie - (C)Copyright 1998 XYZ Inc.", how unauthorized use of the material infringes copyright laws and finally your request for immediate removal of the material.
There are of course varying levels of strength you may wish to write such an email. Some emails may require a more forceful approach (ie - when a blatant copy of your site is made), while others a more kindly, "please remove" email (ie - a paragraph of writing, icon or something they may not have known would come from someone elses site). Typically I find they are completely aware of what they have done, and are figuring they will not be discovered by the original author, so when you do email them, they are usually quite taken back - and remove the material quickly and cooperatively. Less cooperative people require follow-up emails that demonstrate your determination to resolve the issue.
In summary, you are bringing the issue to their attention clearly and consisely, informing them as to why you stake claim to the material, and use decisive wording to obtain a critical importance to the issue and for its immediate correction.
The WayBackMachine in itself may possibly be a copyright infringement!
The WayBackMachine in itself may possibly be a copyright infringement!
Intellectual and creative property has been going through a paryoxysm of transformation, as the barriers to replication continue to fall.
The web has just accelerated the already-existing trend.
[webmasterworld.com...]
ended last night when Tripod sent me an email apologising and taking down the site in question.
It did take a week and 3 emails to Tripod but they took it down eventually. :)
Dazz
Thanks to all that helped ;)
This way you would both benefit - both sites would probably see increased traffic and, AFAICS, nobody loses.
This probably wouldn't work well for commercial sites, but I can see it working for hobbyist sites.
Allen
We wouldn't need this thread if people just displayed a bit of common decency.
When you work on a project every waking moment for the best part of a year and someone just decides they will copy your site (without even removing internal links or changing any text) is, AFAIAC theft and lack of any morals.
just my .02 pence worth :)
Dazz
>> The WayBackMachine in itself may possibly be a copyright infringement
Add to that google cache, aol web caching and proxy server caching. In a differnt time period add the time the transmitter send a radio signal and the time it was played.
When does it become a method of transmission vs a infringement. Maybe a old question but a new media. Add to that some old radio buffs thinking that maybe radio waves could travel through the ionesphere for many years ... does the ionesphere violate our copyright laws?
Maybe it is an easy question! the ionesphere does not add advertisement. Then maybe not so easy considering if the method to pick up those old signals added ads.
When they use an unathorized screenshot of my website as a feature to generate income on theirs.
Regarding protecting your content, I have a feeling that many people who would steal your content are not bright enough to get beyond a basic "no right click" script. Stick a few of those in your site. It won't block everyone, but it'll stop the really dumb ones.
