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Should I use 'none is' or 'none are'

     

irock

10:05 am on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Which one here is correct?

"None of the products shown is..."

"None of the products shown are..."

Thanks!

ukgimp

10:18 am on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



None of the products shown are….
Or
Not one product shown is….

Is the plural that makes the difference.

victor

10:20 am on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Either are correct :)

If the item is uncountable, use the singular ("none of our beer is stale").

If the item is countable, use either ("none of our beer bottles [is / are] broken").

Usually, one way will read more naturally than the other. Go for the form easiest on the ear.

georgeek

10:33 am on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Most indefinite pronouns are singular but 'none' can be singular or plural. In this case it seems to be singular hence....

"None of the products shown is..." would be correct.

georgeek

11:59 am on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Either are correct

victor the pronoun either is singular and requires a singular verb hence...

Either is correct :)

irock

1:27 pm on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I see two conflicting answer.

Could anyone pls clarify?

Macro

1:31 pm on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



irock, I'd go with Victor
(except on the "either are correct" issue;-)).

PCInk

1:36 pm on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



"None of the products shown is..."
Technically, this gramatically correct. 'None' is singular and 'is' matches by being the singular verb.

"None of the products shown are..."
This is often used in speech, though techically incorrect. 'Are' is a plural word and is matched to the plural word 'products'. It is incorrect, although sounds correct due to common usage.

You could use either of the above and it would be perfectly acceptable, although using the word 'is' would be the gramatically correct way of using the English language.

Language is never dead: It moves and changes.

ememi

3:36 pm on Jan 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hey irock

You could write a couple of paragraphs on this controversy, but in the end it might be that none of them would be worth reading. ;)

[alt-usage-english.org...]

[drgrammar.org...]

[home.earthlink.net...] (search on none

[apexawards.com...] (a seemingly endless debate)

[vocabula.com...] (my favourite--search on none)

If you feel uncomfortable with a particular context, you could try a rewrite.

anallawalla

11:19 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator anallawalla is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I explain this rule with the explanation that "none" is a contraction of "no one", therefore the singular is used.

georgeek

11:56 am on Feb 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I explain this rule with the explanation that "none" is a contraction of "no one", therefore the singular is used.

I am sorry but this rule and etymology are just plain wrong. For a complete discourse on the etymology please see the OED which also btw has a whole section on the plural form.

Most indefinite pronouns are singular but 'none' can be singular or plural.

In fact 'none' is nearly always plural and takes a plural verb as in 'None of the forests were deciduous' i.e no amount of the forests.

Here is an example taking a singular verb 'None of the silver spoons was missing' i.e. not one of the spoons.

I hope that helps.

HelenDev

4:43 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I'm no expert on grammar, but surely it would be correct to say 'None of the silver spoons were missing' due to the fact that there is more than one spoon. You wouldn't say 'The silver spoons was gone' or 'The spoon were missing'.

Hence, "None of the products shown are..." must be the only correct option.

Helen.

ememi

5:26 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hey Helen

I think this is one of those things where there isn't quite a right or wrong usage. The author may intend that, as has been discussed here, "none" refer to "not one." But I agree the plural sounds better in this case and I'd probably go with it. As I mentioned earlier, if you're writing something and feel uncomfortable or uncertain about a construction, there's often a way out by rewording it.

On the question of "either" raised in another post, I'd note that this too depends on context.

[wsu.edu:8080...]

[webster.commnet.edu...] (see the caveat to rule #4)

As one author put it:

Some aspects of grammar either are not governed by rules or are governed by rules so complex that they seem not to exist.
;)
 

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