Forum Moderators: not2easy
The supplier has contacted the agent and requested that the site be taken down immediately. The agent refused stating that they cannot sell the supplier's products cost effectively without using their site. (That is garbage ... but despite her efforts and having been treated very rudely) the offending site remains up to date.
She has asked me what to do and all I could think of was registering a complaint with the DMCA ... but I have no idea what the process is.
Has anyone who has been there and done that any advise? I don't seem to be making much headway in the "registration" process.
Although some may be tempted to say something like, "Tell the agent that they can't sell the products anymore" ... please don't. It is a complicated situation and that isn't an option.
Did you friend send a cease and desist letter? Or just sent a "friendly letter" asking for the site to be removed? C&Ds, with all their fancy legal language (and especially the line of "I believe you have willfully infringed my rights under 17 U.S.C. Section 101 et seq. and could be liable for statutory damages as high as $150,000 as set forth in Section 504(c)(2) therein.") often works when a friendly email won't.
Another alternative is to contact the host of the infringing site. Some hosts will remove the site if they receive a complaint, as copyright infringement is usually one of the no-nos listed in the TOS when they sign up as a hosting client. Of course, if the client complains, the host is legally bound to put it back online until it goes through the courts, or the client removes it :(
I will post more in depth info on the DMCA process later today. I just want to double check a couple of the facts before I post it here ;) But the above are some ideas to get you started if you haven't already done them.
<added>If appropriate, she should also add something to the agent agreement that states agents are not permitted to copy the supplier's website when creating their own site.</added>
You can file a DMCA infringement report with Google to get the offending content removed from the Google index. This thead [webmasterworld.com] from last year seems to say it takes 2 weeks to get an infringing site removed from Google. I have no idea if that is still accurate though, because I would think that more people are filing DMCA reports with Google now (it was still relatively unheard of then).
The link for filing is [google.com...] Just follow all their instructions carefully, and it has to be signed and mailed to Google (they mention you can fax it, but they do not have a fax # listed anymore).
chillingeffects.org posts many of the letters Google receives, so you can take a peek there.
If contacting the host does not result in the removal of the infringing duplicate site, the next step is to file a copyright infringement lawsuit. I can give more information on how to go about filing copyright infringement lawsuits in the US or Canada, but I am not familiar with laws governing this elsewhere in the world.
And make sure your friend is keeping all copies of email correspondence. Basically, the infringer has admitted s/he copied the site, which would keep him/her from claiming "innocent infringer".
It is costly to file a copyright infringement suit, especially once lawyers get involved. But courts often award legal costs and damages to the victims - but actually receiving the monetary costs and damages is often hard.
I hope this helps.
I am disappointed that only two members of WebmasterWorld have responded to this question thus far. Now ... if only two people here have ever had cause to deal with the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) , then the lack of response is understandable. However, if what is suggested above is true ... I'd like to hear from the "other side" why they feel that theft of intellectual property is justifiable in any given situation.
I am blown away that a discussion regarding the theft of an entire web site representing months and months of someone elses time and energy ... has produced less than a ripple here!
Is that who and what we are?
[edited by: engine at 10:16 am (utc) on June 26, 2003]
[edit reason] de-linked and edited as discussed with Liane [/edit]
Is that who and what we are?
I reply to all the threads that have to do with copyright infringement, and I think it might be more of a knowledge thing, than anything else. Most just don't run into this problem, or they are blissfully unaware if someone has stolen their content or site. If this was a forum for writers, this thread would probably have 16 other people providing advice already.
Most threads on WebmasterWorld that deal with copyright infringement only have a couple people chiming in about sending a C&D, someone providing Google's DMCA URL, and a couple other people saying "hey, this just happened to me too". I am usually the only one with a more in-depth answer of what to do.
Your question was specifically about the DMCA and how to use it. The DMCA is quite a long, tedious and dry read, and I would be surprised to find more than a handful of members who have read it or know how to go about enforcing it.
I can honestly say it never crossed my mind that it had anything to do with members who "steal for a living", as the quote you provided said. Interesting thought...
But I still think that the answer more has to do with specific knowledge on what to do when your content or site has been ripped off, rather than anything to do with what members do or don't do with their own sites.
The lack of response might have something to do with the fact that the copyright infringement question has been asked, and answered, numerous times. I also think that the lack of response has much less to do with tacit approval of theft as it does with people that aren't directly affected becoming inured to infringement.
If you want to have the site removed entirely, don't file a DMCA complaint with Google, file it with the offender's host. The host may or may not have a DMCA complaint form on their site. The host is required by law to examine all DMCA complaints and more than likely the host will take the appropriate action.
When I've had to take action on copyright infringement in the past I contacted an attorney and had the attorney file all the complaints, complete with snail mail intimidation letters.
If any money is involved at all, I recommend consulting with an attorney. As with any legal issue, the advice of an attorney is recommended, even if no money is involved.
I would also suggest not posting the contents of any mail here, be it sticky mail, email or snail mail, especially after the person sending you the correspondence indicated specifically that they were sending the correspondence privately. Privately does not equate to anonymously, but rather means, private, as in, not disclosed.
Additionally, people that read this thread and don't feel inclined to respond should not feel they are being accused of providing tacit approval of theft, nor should they assume that there are any people here that steal for a living, let alone, "quite a few".
It is fascinating to read some of the complaints that have been registered. The fact that so many companies are willing to make this issues public is profound and a public service.
It is well worth your while Liane to go read through that site about the DMCA and see what is all involved in issuing one.
The theft of an entire site and refusal to remove it is really quite unbelievable. The biggest problem is that portions of the same site has been stolen by more than one agent and without any kind of authorization.
digitalghost, while I appreciate your comments regarding posting the content of the message above, the fact is that it prompted more people to respond to the question ... which was my hope.
I could have posted this question in the "private" forum, but chose to discuss the topic openly because I believe this is a very important issue and the general membership should benefit from this discussion.
Jenstar and yourself have provided some very helpful information, and the link provided by Brett is invaluable to anyone in this situation. It is truely a gold mine of information regarding DMCA infringements.
Sorry if this is simply a rehash of an old question, but I seem to be site search challenged. I did perform a site search on the topic, but after reading for half an hour, was unable to find the information supplied here.
Once again, many thanks for the responses. I'll let you all know what ends up happening.
[edited by: Liane at 8:35 am (utc) on June 26, 2003]
The theft of an entire site and refusal to remove it is really quite unbelievable.
Unfortunately, while many find it unbelievable, it is quite common. But not many people will actually leave the stolen content up after receiving a proper C&D, so that I do find surprising.
Good luck, and I hope it works out.
A good number of members here have achieved success without having to resort to the DMCA.
Again, as said previously, good luck and keep us informed so we can reference this thread.
Can anyone advise the best way of finding the ISP of a site? That would be helpful to the process.....
Can anyone advise the best way of finding the ISP of a site? That would be helpful to the process.....
Enter the domain name here:
http:**//www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/index.jhtml
<edit>url fixed (broken)
The four times I've dealt with bigtime theft of content (and the one time we've dealt with a theft of our whole dang user interface) we were able to resolve it with calls, emails, and a strongly worded letter or two. I would suspect that most people would back down when confronted directly - but I think my next step after calls and letters would be to talk to my lawyer.
I wish your friend luck in dealing with this mess. It's really disheartening to see all of your hard work hijacked!
As for the DMCA, try to exhaust all other means first. It's an evil, unconstitunal(probably misspelled, its 2:30am), broken bill, which shouldn't be touched with a 6 foot pole. Most people don't want to hear about it, so I won't go into it here, but I will gladly back up my statements by email.
I'm one of those types who reads Slashdot and gets in a tizzy about some of the more ugly parts of the DMCA, such as most of S.1201.
However, if what you say is true, then this is a clear-cut case of copyright infringement. If the agent who copied the site has refused to act, your next step, as you said, is to go to the ISP. From looking at the legal code [eff.org], it looks like the relevant section is "Sec. 512. Limitations on liability relating to material online".
The basics of this, as I recall, is that upon giving a notice of copyright infringement to an ISP, the ISP has ten days to take the material down or contest the claim. Or, they can take it down and then later put it back up again, while contesting the claim.
So the gist of this is that when you talk to your lawyer, what you need is probably a takedown notice as per S.512 of the DMCA. Also, whatever you do, it's a really bad idea to try and roll your own legal document, but I guess you know that :-)
Hope this helps.
When she supplied proof via the way back machine ... they still refused to do anything.
She has now hired a lawyer and is agressively seeking any and all avenues of copyright infringement available.
