99.9% copy even down to the email address

[steve128]

A client just contacted me and pointed me to site/page that is a 99.9% carbon copy of his. They even forgot to alter the email address on the page.
But they did remember to alter the referral ID in the links.

The site is hosted with a large company, who just rent out pages.

How can I find out who made the page?

Do the owners of the hosting company have responsibility to adhere to copyright issues on behalf of their clients. Even though they will say we didn't make the page

[engine]

The ISP does have responsibilty to protect copyright and you should try contacting them in the first instance. It's unlikely they will give you details of their customer, however, if you present them with evidence that it is a copy of your web site a responsible ISP should take action.

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act [lcweb.loc.gov] will also help you but may take longer to take effect.

Also, you could contact the search engines to take action to remove the offending pages, eg:
[google.com...]

[gsx]

It has been tested in a UK court that an ISP does not have a legal responsibility for what is held on their servers unless it is pointed out to them. As soon as anyone points anything illegal to them, they are then legally required to remove it.

So you must contact them.

[steve128]

Thank you, I await their response

[sweetgirl64]

Hi Everyone:

I'm new to webmasterworld and found this thread very interesting as I am also having copyright infringement problems involving the UK based ISP Blue Yonder. I really need help as they are not cooperating.

I discovered an article I had written for my web site being used word for word on someone else's site.

I immediately did a whois but nobody was registered to
the domain. There was also no contact name on the site.
I later found that it was a personal web page for the
UK based ISP Blue Yonder.

Here is my url that they have illegally copied:

<snip>
Here is the thief's url:

<snip>

I wrote to blue yonder and they initially thanked me
for my email and stated they would deal with the
offender.

Well nothing has changed, I have written 2 more times
requesting they remove the page and no response.

What should I do next?
Any help very much appreciated - Karen

[edited by: engine at 8:11 pm (utc) on April 2, 2003]
[edit reason] No urls, thanks - please see TOS [/edit]

[takagi]

Hello Karen, Welcome to WebmasterWorld.

I think that even in this case the use of a specific URL is not allowed. So please edit this.

Fortunately Google gave your page a PR4 where the thief's PR is gray. Which means that Google didn't index the page so far. In some cases 'The way back machine' (web.archive.org) can help to prove your text is older. But it looks only this page was not stored in their archive.

I don't know about the law in the UK, but I would prefer a letter from the ISP over an email.

Please try the following. Go to the DOS prompt and type

tracert www.ric*er.co.uk

(replace the * in the middle part). Now you can see the route from your PC to the ISP of the thief. You could contact the company that is supplying internet to this ISP, if this ISP is not helpful. Or mention the name of this company in a letter to the ISP. That company's name can be found just above the name of the ISP.

[sweetgirl64]

Thanks for the response, and sorry about the urls, I didn't realize it was against TOS.

Anyway, it's my understanding that you can't resolve pwp's any further than their isp. But it's irrevelant as there's no question as to the owner of the content. The fool left all my links and even my affiliate codes on the page he stole. In addition I have the article in question published in an eBook from last year.

As far as google, I use the noarchive tags on most of my pages, but my home page actually has a pr of 6.

Anyway, I was hoping maybe someone had a UK agency I could write too? The parent company of Blue Yonder has a statement on their site to direct all abuse problems to Blue Yonder.

Thanks again for any help - Karen

[engine]

sweetgirl64,

Welcome to WebmasterWorld [webmasterworld.com]

Most ISPs have an abuse address: abuse@
which you can try.

Take screen dumps of the offending site as that makes it easier to reference, should you need to. Keep a records of all correspondence, too.

[gingerbreadman]

Don't hold your breath though.

I'm currently involved in a copyright court case in the UK.

The ISP has been notified, on several occasions, but they are not prepared to do anything about it until "a judge in a court of law tells them to".

[sweetgirl64]

Thanks engine, I have written 5 times to [e-mail] *sigh*, I also have captured screen shots and copied source code.

The thing that's so baffling is that they are not disputing their members violation of intellectual property rights. It's also posted on their website in their terms of service that they will terminate a member's account or remove offending pages if the above occurs.

I truly do not want the aggravation of an international and un-necessary law suit. I also suspect Blue Yonder does not want a law suit. I think the problem is employee apathy.

I'm trying to find a UK agency that could perhaps mediate. This afternoon I found a link to the Alliance Against Counterfeiting and Piracy in London and wrote to them for help.

Gingerbreadman, I sincerely hope you win your case. From all I have read since this has happened to me I think people seem to think they can get away with this since they are in another country. Someone needs to set an example that this won't be tolerated. However, I'm shocked that the ISP is taking this stance and making you go through the stress of a suit. Best of luck - Karen

[engine]

sweetgirl64,

Also try this UK Goverment site on Intellectual Property [intellectual-property.gov.uk] for support and information.

[gingerbreadman]

Try and call their bluff.

Send them a solicitors letter saying the action that you will take unless it is removed from their servers immediately. They are hosting copyrighted materials on their servers. The majority of ISPs will pull it down at that stage as their TOS cover themselves in this eventuality.

I did this and the site got pulled straight away.

It got reinstated a few days later but...that's another story.

[sweetgirl64]

Thanks again, A friend from the amazon forums sent me that link yesterday, and I actually found the Alliance website from a link on the [intellectual-property.gov.uk...] site.

Gingerbreadman, I live in the USA. Are you saying I need to hire a solicitor in England, or will a letter from a US lawyer suffice?