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Copyright Infringement

I've been accused of infringing

         

sadlertj

5:47 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I own a website development company. I had hired someone to complete some work on my website as I was busy developing 2 other sites (he was to develop a Flash type site for me that I am not that great at designing). The site was not completed to my request and the designer stopped returning my calls. I had paid $200 up front, and just decided to forget the loss and use the site he had created which was an improvement on mine, and was done at an inexpensive price.

About 2 weeks ago, I recieved a phone call from a lawyer representing a client claiming that my site infringed on their copyright laws. I checked out their site an realized that this was true. Text, logo (only the name was changed - except for 1 of the 20 + pages that still had the other designers name on it), and client testimonials (which I was told were clients that my designer had worked for) were copied.

I removed all material from the web, and contacted the lawyer explaining my story. He responded stating that they would like me to sign a document for them and that they were seeking damages. Obviously being a business owner I understand their concerns over copyright infringement.

I'm wondering what the heck I can do as I had no clue that this was being copied since there are millions of sites on the web.

4string

6:21 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Don't sign anything without a lawyer. If you took it down immediately you'll probably be fine.

I would still contact a lawyer and only talk through your lawyer.

You'd probably have to sue the designer you hired if you have to pay damages.

sadlertj

6:32 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Don't have his contact info anymore as he never bothered returning my calls and I had a pretty decent site done up for $200.

Stupid trusting me.....

martinibuster

6:51 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



pretty decent site done up for $200.

You got what you paid for, and it was anything but decent.

Regarding what you should do, you should consult an attorney. Anything else I tell you could be considered legal advice, and that's against the law to do without a license in most places.

sadlertj

8:01 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Didn't mean to imply it was decent in the sense of a great thing that was done, but without my knowing it was a copy, it looked pretty good and I was satisfied with what I thought was an original site minus the flash work I had asked for.

bobothecat

8:23 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)



they would like me to sign a document for them and that they were seeking damages.

You need to consult with an intellectual property attorney immediately... period.

sadlertj

9:05 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks. Any truth to needing to have the site registered in order to seek damages? I've been reading a lot of info on this.

bobothecat

9:14 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)



Any truth to needing to have the site registered in order to seek damages?

One can sue whether the copyright is registered or not. Having the copyright resgistered could/can result in being sued for up to $150,000.00 per infringment in the U.S. - if the plantiff sustains the burden of proving ... and the court finds that infringement was committed willfully

An un-registered copyright can only sue for actual damages, which is generally hard to prove in court. ( no legal/court costs can be recovered/requested ).

Either way, your best bet is to consult with an attorney.

BigDave

12:41 am on May 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



You can probably come to some sort of arrangement if you get to a position where the attorney can no longe bully you. In other words get that attorney.

It is almost certain that you are going to have to pay up some money, but not having a good attorney on your side will almost certainly cost you more in the long run.

Regarding what you should do, you should consult an attorney. Anything else I tell you could be considered legal advice, and that's against the law to do without a license in most places.

Not true. Unauthorized Practice of Law (UPL) laws are not meant to keep the average person from voicing their opinion. UPL is basically aimed at three groups, lawyers working in areas where they are not licensed, people presenting themselves as lawyers when they are not, and people or companies dealing with legal advice on a commercial basis.

For example, here is the relevant wording in the DC UPL rules:

Rule 49. Unauthorized Practice of Law.
(a) General Rule. No person shall engage in the practice of law in the District of Columbia
or in any manner hold out as authorized or competent to practice law in the District of Columbia
unless enrolled as an active member of the District of Columbia Bar, except as otherwise permitted
by these Rules.
(b) Definitions. The following definitions apply to the interpretation and application of this
rule:
(1) “Person” means any individual, group of individuals, firm, unincorporated
association, partnership, corporation, mutual company, joint stock company, trust, trustee, receiver,
legal or business entity.
(2) “Practice of Law” means the provision of professional legal advice or services
where there is a client relationship of trust or reliance.

In other words, you can freely voice your personal opinion. Just don't give anyone any reason to think that you are a lawyer, or even more important, don't give anyone any reason to think that you are *their* lawyer.

On the other hand, if you are a lawyer, you have to be very careful to disclaim that you are not acting as that person's lawyer when giving internet advice.

hunderdown

6:34 pm on May 26, 2005 (gmt 0)



BigDave, thanks for that post. An interesting example of the law actually making more sense than people assume it does.

Kirby

3:31 am on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>It is almost certain that you are going to have to pay up some money

Damages can be hard to prove.

BigDave

8:34 am on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Damages can be hard to prove.

Not necessarily.

But beyond that, there is a whole pile of other expenses that can far exceed damages, such as your own and possibly the plaintiffs legal fees.

No matter what, it is going to cost money. How it is handled determines how much.

sadlertj

2:58 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If the site isn't registered, can they charge for legal fees or sue? I have read that the only thing they can do is try to recover any lost revenues. Since my company is not at all competitive with them in their market, and since the site was up for 1 month before it was realized it was copied and subsequently taken down, how would they be able to prove any lost revenue?

BigDave

4:49 pm on May 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



They have to register to sue. It did not have to be registered already.

If their work was registered, they can sue for statutory damages instead of actual damages, and they can collect legal fees.

They can even register after the infringment happened if it is within 3 months of publication, and sue as if it was already registered.

Do you know for a fact that the work is not registered?

As for actual damages, title 17 says this "In establishing the infringer’s profits, the copyright owner is required to present proof only of the infringer’s gross revenue, and the infringer is required to prove his or her deductible expenses and the elements of profit attributable to factors other than the copyrighted work."

Are you ready to prove what part of your gross income from your site is not from the use of that work?

Are you ready to pay your own attorney for the time it takes to defend you?

By the way, are you sure that you only infringed on their copyright? Is there a possible trademark infringement action?

You have been threatened with legal action. Get a lawyer, and get a good one. The longer you avoid getting one, the more expensive it is likely to be.

fischermx

5:41 pm on Jun 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member




Are you ready to prove what part of your gross income from your site is not from the use of that work?

or more positive for the acused :

Are THEY ready to prove which is the gross income from your site?

BigDave

1:47 am on Jun 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Are THEY ready to prove which is the gross income from your site?

That is easy to do. It's called discovery. If you do not tell them your gross income when they ask, the judge will be very unhappy with you. You do not want the judge to be unhappy with you.

sadlertj

2:09 pm on Jun 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Small home based company. I have done no sites in the past 6 months (this is a part time hobby thing). Site has been up since April (3 months). They have stopped calling. Assuming that when they talked to my lawyer, he explained a number of the things you guys have mentioned and they decided it would not be worth it to pursue.

Thanks for advice.