Unoffical xyz site legality question

Is it legal to be the unoffical xyz site?

[tnitty]

I'm thinking of starting a site with some forums to which people can post about a particular organization. Is it ok to call it "The Unofficial XYZ Site", or something along those lines?

I think I've seen it done on the web. But don't know if I need permission from the organization. I would assume not. But don't want to waste my time if it will become some kind of legal hassle.

Thanks in advance for advice.

[Wlauzon]

Well, from Google:

Results 1 - 10 of about 462 for "fry's sucks".

Also, see the note here about the lawsuit that Fry's brought (and lost) against such a site:

From what I gather from the court document displayed, there are federal laws protecting sites and publications of that sort.

[edited by: engine at 12:32 pm (utc) on Mar. 18, 2005]
[edit reason] url removed [/edit]

[hunderdown]

My advice is that you should get some legal advice. People have the right to comment about a company, but there may be aspects of the settting-up of such a forum that would protect you from even the threat of a lawsuit, so get good legal advice before you go ahead...

[Corey Bryant]

It depends on where you are and where the organization is somewhat. In the U.S., we have Free Speech, so usually, you are safe there

-Corey

[Webwork]

1. Must talk to a lawyer.

2. If "going negative" then must consider laws in the various countries where business xyz does business. You may be an easier target in one country vs. another.

3. If your site "makes money" trading in any way on xyz's good name be prepared for a C&D letter, if not a lawsuit.

4. If you site isn't making money (in any way) but is simply a labor of love then you might be less vulnerable. Talk to your lawyer.

I'm a lawyer and a webmaster, so in this case, you also have a lawyer telling you to talk to a lawyer. It's a tricky area. Talk to a lawyer with expertise in trademark law and business practices. That's not me.

[hunderdown]

We do have free speech in the US, but there are limits to it. We also have a legal system in which companies have a number of tools to protect themselves from what people say about them...

Like WebWork said.

[Corey Bryant]

If you do need an attorney with trademark and copyright experience - let me know

-Corey

[BigDave]

A lot of it depends on what the commentary is and whether you will be maing money off their trademark. And also whether they just feel like sueing you for the hell of it, even if they know they will lose.

Just because you are within your rights, doesn't mean that they cannot make your life hell.

Like webwork said, ask a lawyer about your specific case.

[tnitty]

Thanks to all who replied...

I'm in the U.S. and it would be focussed on U.S., so U.S. laws would apply.

The site would (hopefully) earn money, but I guess it would depend on the definition of "trading on xyz's good name."

My site is not related to stocks, but an analogy would be a site that has a forum for each public stock in the U.S. where people posted messages about that stock. Since many such sites exist, I'm confident that I'm in the clear, but just wanted to double check.

Thanks again.

[VegasRook]

I. Free speech does not mean you can say what you like without repercussions. It simply means you can't go to jail for what you say. You can still be sued, lose a job, etc.

II. If your site accepts or attempts to generate monetary considerations, you will be in for it. You are using their name to make money.

III. You are responsible for everything on your website, posted by you or not.

[Wlauzon]

According to our local lawyer, in a nutshell, if the site is non profit, opinion only, and you are not making any money then it is no different from one of those ratings websites.

If you are making money using their name, get a lawyer.

[tnitty]

I'm kind of surprised. It's hard to believe a site like www.scout.com got permission from every NBA, MLB, NHL, high school and college sports organizations? Yet they have hundreds of forums and sites about each school and team with tons of articles, etc. It seems inconceivable.

It's possible that they just got permission at the top level of each (i.e., the NBA head office, the NCAA, etc.), rather than each individual team. But even that seems highly unlikely.

Am I missing something? Thanks again in advance for your replies.

[BigDave]

There is a difference between using a trademark descriptively on a page, and using the trademark in the domain name. You might still be able to use it in the domain name, but your odds of getting away with it is lower.

Basically, everyone has a right to use the trademarks of others. But the closer you are to competeing with that company, or causing confusion in the marketplace, the more restrictions there are on the ways you are permitted to use that trademark.

As a private citizen with a non-commercial blog, I can use and abuse any GM trademark to my heart's content. I could even get a derisive domain name that includes a GM trademark to host my blog without much fear.

Ford can use a GM trademark such as chevy, but they must do it a lot more carefully. There will be lots of the disclaimers and such, and they would certainly be stepping over the line if they started a derisive website that used a GM trademark in it.

There is a whole huge grey area between those two extremes, and little things can tilt you more towards one or the other.

[Wlauzon]

I'm kind of surprised. It's hard to believe a site like www.scout.com got permission from every NBA, MLB, NHL, high school and college sports organizations? Yet they have hundreds of forums and sites about each school and team with tons of articles, etc. It seems inconceivable.

Hm.. I thought the orginal was about using a related or similar domain name?

I am far from being any kind of legal beagle, but from what I understand, information sites, fan sites, forums, ratings, opinion pieces, and anything similar has a legal status. For example, you can write about how crappy the logo on a t-shirt looks that is authorized by Acme Widgets, but that does not mean you can make your own Acme Widget logo t-shirts to sell. You can even charge to read your opinion piece.

[stapel]

Ford can use a GM trademark such as chevy, but they must do it a lot more carefully.

If you look in the fine print at the bottom of the ad, you'll note text along the lines of "GM is the trademark of General Motors; Toyota is the trademark of Toyota Motors;... the trademarks are the property of their registered owners;... Ford Motor Company is not affiliated with General Motors,...." That is, they may refer to a competitor, but they carefully and clearly say that they are not affiliated. They mention the competitors to say "This is who we're better than, ha, ha", or something similar. But they don't say "Toyotas will kill you" or "Driving a GM car will give you cancer and destroy your social life". Comparison is different from attacks.

So I think a disclaimer, clearly and specifically and plainly stated on every page, would be a start. Planning on keeping things (like forum postings) on a not-totally-hostile level would also be good. But talking to a lawyer for the specifics will be crucial.

Eliz.