Forum Moderators: not2easy
We use this to cut down on the "can we come out to the warehouse" type phone enquires from the locals, and gives them a place to go, if they are looking for product, but don't want to buy online.
I was surprized to get a phone message the other day, asking for me to remove this information from my website (address and store phone number) which is all public information.
This store should be gratefull, that I was sending him the retail customers we did not want out of the goodness of my heart. But go figure, some people are strange.
I will remove this information for this ungratefull SOB when I get around to it, but where do I stand legally on this?
There is no link to his website (he does not have one), but don't I have the right to list public information without harasement?
I don't know the legalities of the matter, but if somebody wants
to be removed from any page on my site, they are gone right now,
not later. -Larry
I ran into this problem myself a few years ago. I helped someone build a webiste (pro bono). After a few weeks, she went off on me and I did not want anything else to do with her. A month later, she found someone else and then about a month later, she pulled the same stuff. The guy called me up and it was deja vu all over when he told me the things she was doing. A few months later, she had my name listed. True - it was "helping me in my business" - but I did not want anything to do with her. She refused to pull my name off so I wrote the hosting company who shut her down.
-Corey
She refused to pull my name off so I wrote the hosting company who shut her down.
On what grounds did they shut her down? Just using your name?
Do you sell [whatever it is you sell] at standard retail markup, or are you a discounter?
On what grounds did they shut her down? Just using your name?
-Corey
He is looking at the potential increase in work without considering the benefits. Just look at all the websites that try to keep others from linking to them without permission.
You aren't likely to get in trouble for using their name, number and address. What could get you in trouble is if they can convince someone (such as a judge or ISP) that there is some other reason that you are listing their information.
In the case that Corey Bryant mentions, I don't think that it is the use of his name that was the issue. I think it came down to giving him credit that he did not want, with the additional little tidbit that he is probably still the copyright holder on the site so if she is changing things without his permission, it is infringement. And by listing him, she is admitting that it is his work to control.
-Corey
I can understand if you have someone on the site that they don't want to be associated with. For example, if you were one of those smut peddlers and linked to them and they wanted off your site.
You are correct in taking it down. While you might technically have the right to list public information, they also have the right to force you to spend money in a court of law proving your "right".
He is getting far more buisness, than he is going to
lose, and he will find that out the hardway when I pull his business info on my next update on Sunday.
You do something to help people, and they stab you in the back. Funny that the request was made on the Ides of March. Etu Brutus!
Well, then you can charge him for a listing when he asks you to put the info back. :)
Freedom of the press is covered by the First Amendment (if you live in America) and if I am not mistaken, after watching the penn & teller BS show you can actually use cuss words to describe someone and it's not considered libel.
So maybe your news could be "This ******* who owns the store located at {location} with this phone number {number} doesn't want me to list his store anymore on my website, so I wont."
When you get to court the judge will throw it out because A) Its the truth B) Its news C) cuss words don't count.
You might want to consult a lawyer first though ;)
When you get to court the judge will throw it out because A) Its the truth B) Its news C) cuss words don't count.
At what point would the judge throw it out? Are you likely to get your legal fees covered? Are you positive that it would count as news?
My guess is that you would most likely not get a dismissal. You might get a summary judgement *after* discovery. But even there, I suspect that it would be a partial summary judgement that would only cover a few issues.
It certainly would not cover "It's the truth" because that would be a finding of fact, not a finding of law. If it is a jury trial, the judge does not get to make findings of fact. You would have to have a finding of law that would make the question of whether it is true or not moot.
Sorry for the comment, but I think it would relate to the argument.
Lets Say, I have PR8 Site and it is a largely accessed site by many web users at any given day.
I Add the name of you business and URL as text not a link, on one of my pages. My rankings are very favorable on many keywords used for your niche store.
The way it works, if I have SE friendly website, your business name is listed on it, more people will come to my site kind of looking for yours, but if I have almost same products,1 out of 5 will buy from me, cause they have found something here, on my site and the don’t have to go to 123 Nice Lane, Bermuda, NJ.
You might want to reread the first post. This retailer does not even have a website.
As for writing a little news message like so, "The non-affiliated {business name} at {phone number} on the corner of {address} were removed from this website recently but you can still find this business by looking in the phonebook under {business name}." Would be pretty safe.
Normally no one would have a case against you for posting an address or phone number on your website as long as no false information was attached to it. Like, lets say, call 555-5555 for a good time, but since your in the same industry people could mistake his business as part of yours and have a case.
If this guy really ticked you off you could always start a new website called "Business Type Compare" and have the prices of a bunch of business's in your field and then put direct comparisons of his prices vs yours. Nothing he could do about it. Think of all those webhosts that create those fake top 10 webhosting company websites only to say nothing but positive things about their webhosting. Of course a quick whois always gives it away.
About 10 years ago we had a similar nut case near our B&M store. Some ditz opened up some kind of "natural foods" store around the corner. We get more walk in traffic than all the other 7-8 stores combined in that little micro-mall. We offered to put up a poster or something for her store in ours, if she would do the same for us (the original links). She refused, on the grounds that we would be competing with her...
We sell electrical and battery equipment.. duh...
She is long gone of course, but it shows that people do not always think logically.
And no, it is not any violation to just list the name and address. It is public info. If you had comments along with it, then he might have some grounds.
"Okay buddy, not problem." Click.
Delete. Move on.
EVO
some people are just stupid
That's a pretty arrogant assumption.
Publicity from a source they didn't expect can sometimes cause serious difficulties for dirt-world events. Think of it as the off-line equivalent of being slashdotted. They could end up with a lot of angry people on their hands if they didn't have the resources to cope.
It's not stupid to want to control their publicity so they can give effective service to a smaller number of people rather than substandard service or no service to unexpected crowds.
Speaking of /. or any big site discovering yours and putting up a link or article, everyone should be prepared for that. I picked a host that will just bill me for excess gigs of transfer if that (god willing) should ever happen. I would be more than ready to take out a bank loan for a few grand to cover the costs of the extra bandwidth and my new found audience. 9 out of 10 new business's fail every year because of lack of business and these crazy fools are turning away free business. A mystery to me also.
Have you ever come across a company that has different hours of operation posted during salmon season? I know of quite a few. Or a family business that does not want ot take on the responsibility of hiring employees?
I know one guy that makes quite a comfortable living selling products that he personally fabricates to race teams. He has no real employees, though he sometimes pays friends to help him out.
He had all the business that he could handle even before there was the WWW. Now he just has a longer waiting list, because he still works at his own leasurly pace.
By his definition he is incredibly successful, and he is happier than any CEO that I have ever met.
They could end up with a lot of angry people on their hands if they didn't have the resources to cope.
Somehow I just don't think that having your address listed on a single local website in a single small local area is going to cause that.....
What is this guy going to do when the new Yellow Pages come out and causes a mad inrush of angry customers?
My twist, you sure do have a narrow deffinition of success.
I am not referring to success but economics. If there is a demand for something there will be a supply.
selling products that he personally fabricates to race teams
So there is more demand for fabricated race team products than supply at the current moment? Interesting, maybe i'll hire a crew of 20 or 30 great fabricators and start a business doing exactly what your friend is doing. We'll even get ahold of his products and learn to duplicate them to a 'T'. After we learn how to duplicate his products i'll hire a team of about 60 minimum wage workers to come in and assist the great fabricators. I'll have the great fabricators teach the minimum wage workers how to fabricate the parts by themselves and then fire all the great fabricators and keep the minimum wage workers. I will be able to fill orders faster and charge a cheaper price. I'll take care of that backlog for him. Of course after demand drops off i'll lay off most of the minimum wage workers, the less productive ones of course.
Sure your friend will still have a few loyal customers and get some weekend work maybe but he'll have to now suppliment his income working in fast food unless of course he wants to come work for me for minimum wage.
Just remove the persons business name from your site and move on. What's the big deal?
What is this guy going to do when the new Yellow Pages come out and causes a mad inrush of angry customers?
That's not a valid comparison, for more than one reason.
First, Yellow Pages ads are far more likely to deliver a steady trickle of traffic than unexpected, over-capacity crowds. That's just their nature. Second, the new Yellow Pages ad is more than likely a renewal of last year's ad, so even if the ad itself is new, it's not necessarily a new element in their advertising mix. Third, the ad is under the business's control and they'll know roughly what to expect from it.
My comment about the difficulty of coping with a rush was in response to EVorange telling us about someone who wanted their event removed from his listings. A physical event will have real physical limits on the numbers of people they can handle, and maybe other limits as well, such as legal or financial restrictions, or supply chain management. If the limits seem to be approaching, it is an absolutely sensible response to start turning off some of their publicity. EVorange did the right thing by removing their event from his listings when asked, even if he didn't know the background for their request.
The first poster should do the same, promptly and graciously. He doesn't know the background for the request, and should assume that the store has good reason for making it.
